Frustrations with interviewing in this wild job market

In reply to Adrian_Thompson (Forum Supporter) :

Read through this thread and reach out to Phil (PMRacing), if you haven't already. 

Stopping at 15 years makes you sound less old. It also makes your experience sound less outdated. I'm not saying it's right, I'm just saying.

In reply to maschinenbau :

Newfies have a rich tradition of traveling right across the country for work.

You'll find a Newfoundlander on every job site in this fair country. 

They're basically Canada's Mexicans. 

In reply to AngryCorvair (Forum Supporter) :

Wow, no I hadn't seen that.  Funny as I've met Phil, and went to Bollinger and filmed the B4, but didn't know about that thread.  I'll reach out to him again. thx.

I actually worked with that same career coach from that thread and can comment on the experience offline if you're interested.

Maybe important to note that I'm still in the same job I was in well after working with that coach.  I think Phil had the same sort of experience.

In reply to GameboyRMH :

I'll repeat myself: you haven't worked enough E36 M3ty jobs to realize how good Amazon actually is, for a E36 M3ty job. 

Go do precast concrete for a summer for less than federal minimum wage because it's the only place that answered an application in over a year. You'll be begging for a delivery route.

Get out of the GTA if there aren't any jobs there. Go where the jobs are, or where the cost of living is considerably lower. 

You're young, no kids, no wife, no mortgage. Tying yourself to a metropolitan area is the dumbest things you can do. Travel, follow the work if you have to.

The difference with Amazon is that they started paying middle class wages for driver jobs. So people working them were shocked to find that they were hard work. Previously it was all minimum wage workers who are used to crappy jobs with crappy pay that work you to the bone. $18-$25/hour is not big money these days but you can at least pay your bills on it. Used to be minimum wage plus a buck or two was all you could hope for from these throwaway jobs, Amazon rewrote the book on pay then became the villain because the people taking the jobs thought they would be easy. They're definitely not easy.

In reply to dculberson :

Like Ford...

Hard work but paid twice as much as anywhere else.

In reply to RevRico :

It's like Frenchy and Solar. You're wasting your time trying to be logical.

I've seen a few people suggesting I move, I can't afford to move right now or anytime soon, I already moved in 2019. I feel like the main character from Dunkirk running from one sinking ship to another (that character was based on a real person, fun fact). I also don't think there's significant room for improvement in moving anywhere else in the country.

Most of the jobs in Ontario are in the GTA, if there's a problem location-wise it might be that even more of the people are here. The concentration of jobs seems to decrease exponentially as you move further away from the city. In terms of tech jobs, it seems that the programmers are mostly stacked up like bees in a hive in downtown Toronto and Markham but we do get some scraps outside of there. Generally almost all of Canada's tech jobs are in Toronto, Vancouver and Montreal (much of it is game dev there which is the coal mines of software development work).

Driving for Amazon doesn't pay middle-class money here. The Amazon driver job I accidentally applied to was paying about $20CAD/hr plus some regular overtime, which in terms of hourly base pay is a bit over minimum wage and equivalent to just under $14US/hr (LOLWUT? Could've sworn that worked out closer to $15US last I checked...). And with a higher cost of living than most anywhere in the US outside of the coastal cities, that doesn't go as far either. I've personally seen them sprinting and driving like asshats in my neighborhood so I know they don't have it easy in this area as it seems to vary by region, although the problem of being pushed to drive dangerously and not take bathroom breaks is fairly widespread. I recently saw news that Amazon is testing AR glasses on drivers' heads to order them around just like in Manna.

Side note, this video made me feel better about getting turned down for a lot of the low-end jobs, it may not be that I'm overqualified, it may just be that they're not hiring anyone at all. This is from someone who was not overqualified in a job market that isn't as bad yet. Warning, NSFW language:

No one is saying move somewhere random then apply for jobs. We're saying apply where the jobs are and move once you get one. Many companies will help pay relocation. That's what happened with me. I didn't love leaving my big southern city for a small rural midwest town but I couldn't fathom being unemployed for that reason.

$20>$0. 

In reply to GameboyRMH :

Amazon drivers average about 22,000 steps per day. Which is exactly the same as FedEx drivers, or UPS, or DTS.  They are a delivery company, and their drivers need to deliver packages. 
 

I strongly suspect that most of the complaints come from individuals that are out of shape, and not physically fit enough to do the requirements of the job.

I am COMPLETELY confidant that Amazon does not actively encourage unsafe driving.  That's a nightmare of a liability. However, out of shape individuals who can't keep up the pace the job requires could easily try to use their trucks as time machines (and should be fired for it).

There are also Amazon driver positions which are subcontractor relationships. It's not uncommon for these positions to earn $1000 per week (and have lots of tax deductions as a business).

Amazon has about 50,000 vehicles on the road.  Some of their drivers are content.  It's crazy to lump every one of them into the same generic little box.

In reply to GameboyRMH :

I get that the video was trying to be funny and entertaining- and it was. But as someone who has hired a lot of people, it was very cringe worthy. Attitude goes a long way, and if even a small percentage of his attitude in the video showed in his interviews, that is likely a huge part of his problem getting a job. Just IHOP, easy job, anyone can do it- The manager doesn't see it that way. He doesn't want just anyone. Running a business, any business, is a stressful, difficult job. You are only as good as your employees, so the manager wants the best they can get. They don't have time for someone who comes across as too good for the job. They leave the impression that they aren't serious or aren't planning on staying long. The guy in the video was late for the interviews in what, half of his examples? That is a disqualifier there, if you can't make it to the interview on time or follow directions, I'd rather hire someone that can instead. 

Tips for getting a job-

Smile. Be friendly and approachable. Make a connection, be someone that they want to share a workplace with.
 

Tell them what you can bring to their company. It needs to be something they want and need. 
 

Don't tell them what you can't do. You are willing to learn anything. You are willing to work any time. You don't get to make schedule demands during an interview unless they are recruiting you. You don't like the shift? Do you want a job? Then work the damn shift that is available. Do a good job, make yourself valuable, then discuss the shift that you would prefer to work. You are in a much better position to negotiate once you have proven your worth. That goes for pay too. 

So here's a question for the group...  I have been told that on my resume, I should only include my last 10-15, maybe 20 years of experience to avoid ageism.  So that's fine and all, but almost without exception, every job that's out there immediately funnels to an online application to complete where they always ask for a complete work history with dates.  It seems like everyone has a story about the guy that was fired after 25 years because they found out he lied on his job application, so I'm assuming that not putting that in the online application would trigger that same sort of scenario.  Every single article that I can find out there talks about how important it is to leave the old things off your resume, but what is the point of that if you have to plug all that information into the online application anyway?  Is there any viable way to get around that without (a) making my age obvious or (b) putting myself in a "you lied on your application" position?

In reply to wae :

expanding on that thought, most (if not all) of the online applications ask for a degree including completion date. so am i supposed to state BSME 1991 and then begin my work history in 2009?

In reply to wae :

I've applied for jobs that ask for all "relevant" job experience, not all job experience, so that gives an out to not need to list all employers. 

In reply to wae :

It seems that once you've acquired 15-20 years of experience you're supposed to go directly to Carousel.

In reply to GameboyRMH :

But how is that when they want to hire people fresh out of college with 40 years experience in AI LLM architecture!?!?

In reply to wae :

My, less than fully knowledgeable, answer would be:

The electronic, fill in, part of the resume is going to mostly be scanned for minimum requirements.  Once it is presented so someone with any kind of hiring power, it will likely be the paper resume.  I am not certain of this, but seems likely.  I can check on this, for my company, next week and let you know.

For the paper resume, certainly cut it down.  I have had part in the hiring process from the hiring side (not a hiring manager though) a number of times and I find general highlights that I can prob further with in-person questions, the most useful.  I honestly could not give a crap about your education if it was many years ago (obviously there are certain requirements), other than "A masters in French Literature!, you have to wonder about a person who would do that!..."

I, because of my line of work, tend to "read in" to resumes a lot and look for organization / presentation etc of the resume itself, and as noted, prefer short and to the point.  Over presenting stinks of desperation.  Short and to the point project confidence (in my opinion).

One tactic, and other may have feedback on this, might be to put things in the resume, and word things so the that reader does a bit of a "I need to ask him about this..." (as in leaving some details out). Obviously, don't go to far with that!  E.g. under Accomplishments: "I once gave Caroll Shelby some good advice" or "being upside down doing 120 made me re-evaluate my life choices"

Some good news, got an interview request for that motorsport industry job I applied to a while ago. Commute and pay would be kinda crappy but it might hardly feel like work otherwise. My strongest advantage might be that few other qualified people would be willing to work for so little, but I think they're impressed with my match for the oddball skills required too, recently they updated the job post now also asking for skills that I have.

Good luck, I'm rooting for you. Read Boost Crazy's post above, it's spot on, take that attitude to your interview and it will help you seal the deal! 

Good luck! We're all pulling for you!

Good luck!

In reply to GameboyRMH :

Good luck! Don't mention the commute. If they bring it up, don't let on that it's a negative. Tell them that you enjoy the time to yourself to relax, maybe listen to a podcasts (bonus points if you name one relevant to their industry.) Employees with bad commutes don't stick around as long, and can be less reliable. Employers know that, and it could be a tie breaker. Do as much research as possible on the company, and ask informed questions. Let them talk, the interview should be a two way process. You want to interview them a little- they should be trying to convince you to work there as you are trying to convince them to hire you. In the end you both should feel like you nailed it. You want to get them talking to you like a co-worker rather than an interviewee. They are trying to picture what it would be like to work with you, help them paint that picture. Basically, put yourself in the interviewer's shoes. What would you want to see and know if you were them?