History in the Making: Russian Invasion

Tom_Spangler (Forum Supporter) said:

Javelin said:

You're right, and I apologize. I am trying to keep this thread open and am tired of hearing complaints about bias and picked an example that was irrelevant to this discussion and inflammatory.

All good, man. It's a stressful time and we're all doing our best.

Two gentlemen at work here. Thanks fellas. 

My $.02.  This has the potential of dramatically damaging everybody's economies.  I think that will drive an overwhelming number of countries to act roughly "in concert" with international condemnations and action against Russia.  The actual skin in the game for those sanctions will vary wildly, but I think the fuses of both the leaderships and populations at large are really short and we've seen historically that a "smash & grab" like this, while painful, is better dealt with immediately than trying to wait it out.   There are significant differences between now and the last time this happened--e.g. the internet, cell phone cameras, social media.  Putin is not the kind of guy who typically fears that as he hasn't traditionally been subject to those powers.  I think he's grossly underestimated those changes and it wouldn't surprise me at all to see a situation where Putin has to stop this in a month and try to negotiate some sort of cease fire or face being bled white through resistance in Ukraine and international pressure.  

Again, my $.02 and I'm probably wrong.  

In reply to stroker :

That is a view point I had not considered or read/heard elsewhere. 

I was reading Putin is having to try to convince other oligarchs that this had to be done. 

This makes me think he might not be in as strong a position domestically as I thought.

Please everyone calm down. Calling people trolls and making political statements isn't helping

Steve_Jones said:

You're so blinded by hate you can't see that. 

Just as a friendly PSA, this is what some might mean by "tone".   Consider how it's coming across.  

93EXCivic said:

I was reading Putin is having to try to convince other oligarchs that this had to be done. 

This makes me think he might not be in as strong a position domestically as I thought.

Can you link to sources? There's so much being talked about, that seems like it would actually be incredibly pertinent information.

I really want to know how the people who might actually have sway over Putin are reacting.

In reply to Beer Baron :

In reply to Steve_Jones :

(Most of this back and forth is giving me a mykraine.)

I think this is a good time for a homework assignment for everyone who is highly engaged in this thread.

That assignment is to read this thread: Welcome to the Party

Once read, reflect to yourself, privately (please do not write a response) if your are being the best guest you can be.  

I'm not going to lock this thread, because in a time like this I believe it's important that we can share our thoughts and take comfort in each other. I'm not even going to warn against obvious trolling, because it's obvious. Let's continue to discuss like intelligent adults without name-calling or baiting, and if some member(s) can't do that, let us ignore them because it is so contrary to what they desire and so much what we need.

Margie

I would also add this from the forum rules: 

And if the "party" metaphor doesn't work, let me lay this out: This here forum is for my business (wowza, what a concept). Tim and I have spent 30+ years building that business, especially the tone and flavor of that business, and you are crazy if you feel entitled to dictate that it be any different from what we, and the people we work with, have chosen and worked to promulgate. So don't expect some kindergarten "fairness" here, and don't try to enforce saloon rules either. We're shooting for a middle ground we like to call "adult conversation."

Margie

Wait, theres forum rules?  

I'm not sure I've read them and I'm only 26,093 postings behind Miata Keith Guy.  

Thanks for not shutting this down.

  I haven't  made a post in it. But I have visited multiple times a day to keep up to date with the facts,  theories and conversations being held here.  

I for one greatly appreciate this thread and the contributors.  

I just ignore the nonsense. 

I haven't commented either but I have very much enjoyed the well thought out comments and conversations. Thank you to all 

In the spirit of lightening things up a bit, the Simpsons predicted this, as usual:

Anyhoooo.....

I have to say, after a full day of conflict, the Ukranian's have done MUCH better than I expected.  The Russians have made little progress in the North into Kiev, are being stopped and heavily fought in the North East.  They are losing ground in the south though.  There appears to be multiple examples of aircraft and helicopters being shot down and Russian vehicles being destroyed. It seems very unlikely Russia has made most of it's first day objectives.

The Russians don't appear to be attacking across the original conflict border.  Probably because these areas are already well fortified.  It is notable that they clearly did artillery barrages there before the attack though, so likely a diversion.

There are currently 3 KC-135 tankers doing racetracks west of Ukraine.  It appears they are refueling "something".  Just standby, just in case, or....  Hey, would the Russians notice a few cruise missiles?  Heck, there is a good chance an F35 or stealth fighter could get close enough to drop some stuff.  Who knows!  I just heard of a mysterious "ghost pilot" who shot down a number of Russian planes....

The Kremlin is stating it is willing to accept surrender terms from Ukraine.  To soon Putin... to soon.

Also of note:   rt.com was down for a while.  Apparently Anonymous is attacking it, and Russian government sites.  rt is back up now, mostly.  The comments on the articles are rather entertaining (in an absurd way)

This is 2 century old imperialistic land grab crap and I really hope the Ukrainians give them a nice kick in the nuts.

Another interesting tidbit:

Apparently a Russian warship approached a Ukrainian black sea island and warned them to surrender or be destroyed.

The Ukrainians reply:  "Go F%CK YOURSELF" 

(echoes of Bastogne)

(all on the island are suspected dead)

aircooled said:

There are currently 3 KC-135 tankers doing racetracks west of Ukraine.  It appears they are refueling "something".  Just standby, just in case, or....  Hey, would the Russians notice a few cruise missiles?  Heck, there is a good chance an F35 or stealth fighter could get close enough to drop some stuff.  Who knows!  I just heard of a mysterious "ghost pilot" who shot down a number of Russian planes....

Really want the "Ghost of Kyiv" rumors to be verified. That guy would be an underdog hero.

There are a handful of vids that appear to show the plane, and the memes are pretty funny too.

Also, I know nothing of their politics, but the Klitschko's seem like pretty badass leaders

Pull some cash out, just in case ATM's go down. 

I know it's just the Ukrainian spelling, but I can't help thinking that "Kyiv" is what "Kiev" sounds like said with a New Zealand accent.