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RevRico
RevRico UberDork
5/9/18 6:49 p.m.

My kids mom's best friend, the person my daughter spend most of her weekends with, died today because of some serious bullE36 M3. Serious bullE36 M3 that I'd really like to talk about, but I can't/won't get into details here. 

how the hell are we supposed to explain to our daughter that she won't be going to Lalas house anymore or seeing her kids every weekend?

I'm used to death, I've been around it a lot, it really doesn't get to me like it does other people, so I'm really out of my element when it comes to dealing with it and kids. I really don't even know how to handle Dana right now, but she at least seems to be holding herself together. 

I didn't know her all that well, so I'm probably going to be watching my daughter during the funeral stuff, hopefully because I really don't think it's appropriate to take little kids to viewings and funerals, which should (maybe) make things easier?

I know my daughter isn't going to take this well. We didn't tell her before she went home, but knowing her sister, she'll find out soon enough. So how the hell are we supposed to handle explaining death to someone who barely understands the days of the week?

EastCoastMojo
EastCoastMojo Mod Squad
5/9/18 6:54 p.m.

As a non-parent but once child, I think it would be better for her to hear it from you than her sister. Maybe lead in with asking her if she knows about death, movies she's watched where a character dies (Lion King? Wizard of Oz? Snow White?) Let her know that it's ok to be upset and to talk about what she's feeling.

Sorry to hear about your friend. 

imgon
imgon Reader
5/9/18 7:50 p.m.

Kids are pretty aware of what is going on around them and will deal with the news in their own way. Our 7, 6 and 3 year old grandkids had a reasonably close relationship with my step father who died about a year ago. We explained to them that he was old and we all pass away at some point. The older two still talk about him fondly and mention they miss him occasionally. Your situation may be a bit different as it is a young person and under extenuating circumstances,  so I would think you should try to be as honest as you can and if the kids are really young leave out details that may be disturbing.  Let them grieve in their own fashion,  good luck.

Patrick
Patrick MegaDork
5/9/18 8:48 p.m.

Well, a couple hours ago i just had to explain to abby about why great grandma is laying in that box and not waking up anymore a couple hours ago.  I was very matter of fact with her(she’s a few months off of turning 4) and she cried, but seemed to get it.  

Mndsm
Mndsm MegaDork
5/9/18 8:57 p.m.

Rico, you have my number. I'm at work til 3ish tomorrow. Use it after if you need. You also know how to find me elsewhere. 

Streetwiseguy
Streetwiseguy UltimaDork
5/9/18 9:18 p.m.

How old is your daughter?  4 or 5, she won't really grasp the concept.  8 or 9, talk to her as if she is an adult, other than graphic details.  Kids learn all about life and death sometime.  Might as well be now...

RevRico
RevRico UberDork
5/9/18 9:38 p.m.

In reply to Streetwiseguy :

My daughter will be 3 on June 1, and her weekly schedule from about age 3 months was Monday to Thursday at my place, Friday to Sunday with her mom at her mom's friend's house. My daughter knew something was weird when mommy came and got her today, but she didn't know what happened yet. Dana was still trying to figure out how to tell her when she left tonight. 

Her half sister, I guess she would be, is 10, and at least understands the concept. But, she was very close to the family and is also going through some strange new things of her own, so she's really a mess right now. 

Even the sudden unexpectedness of it, I could handle with the older kid, and I can put in a suit and pour drinks for adults, but explaining this to a 3 year old whose spent most of her life with someone her mom's age? No idea. Harleigh wanders around the yard "texting" get on her toy phone, and every Monday has to tell me all about what she did over the weekend. I don't know how to deal with that. 

Driven5
Driven5 SuperDork
5/10/18 4:23 a.m.

It's amazing that for something which as adults is such a concrete (and inevitable) concept as death is, that when you try to explain it to a young child you realize just how abstract it really is.  We had to explain death to a barely 3 year old last year.  I think really it's all about breaking it into age appropriate concepts and keeping it both simple and direct.  While it's harder to explain at this age, the emotional significance of this will (thankfully) also not generally match that of an older child or adult. They are also excellent fact based learners, with no preconceived notions about what makes a topic uncomfortable for older people to talk about. So use this to your advantage. Generally, stick to the fundamental facts (NO confusing euphemisms like 'forever sleep' or 'going away') in familiar terms and add in a little bit of emotional coaching.  I'd start with something like this:

 

Something very sad happened.  __________ died.

We're not going to be able to see them ever again.

When somebody dies, that means their body completely stops working.

They don't eat, speak, or play anymore, and they don't feel any pain.

You also won't be going to their house on weekends anymore, because they will not be there.

From now on, you'll probably go to  ____________ on weekends.

It's ok for you to feel sad and upset about all of this. It makes me feel that way too.

I love you, and will do my best to answer any questions you have.

 

They're likely to ask some surprisingly tough questions. No dodging them.  This may occur right away, after they've had some time to think about it, or more likely both.  Answer them to the best of your ability, as honestly and truthfully as possible.  Remember your answers, because they will remember them too.  They're going to be reconfirming this information with you (testing you on it) over, and over, and over again in the coming days and weeks...And then more times sporadically over the coming months.  The answers they get need to be consistent. At this age, they mostly learn through repetition, so it will be the exact same (word-for-word) conversation 100+ times. Communicating and discussing the questions, and answers, with the child's mother will be very beneficial to the child.  The answers don't also have to be word-for-word the same between each of you, just consistent with each other.  Some questions may require discussing how to answer it between you and the child's mother before providing fully answering the child.

Slowly the questions will stop, and be replaced by them reciting the entire series of answers you had previously provided to them, seemingly at random (and often inopportune) times.  This will probably start off with reciting it to people they know and are comfortable with, and will eventually extend to being something they might bring up as a point of conversation with anybody they might talk to...Including friendly strangers, like the check out clerk at the grocery store.  So be prepared for the whole world to know whatever answers you gave them...No pressure.

At first, start preparing to answer simple (LOL!) 'why' questions for each part of each statement above.  It's ok to admit if you don't know, but maybe also try to reassure them you'll help get them an answer.  Be warned though, one might think that as the repetition of the same information, followed by the same questions and same answers is rehashed enough times to start sinking in, that their minds will be put at ease.  They will not.  Their increased understanding and awareness will likely lead to new, more awkward, more uncomfortable, and more unexpectedly deep questions.  You also may get some unexpectedly profound statements from them on occasion here too.  Pay attention, as you just might learn some new things about your child as well.

At some point, showing and explaining to them some of the more common 'death' all around us in nature might also help.  One that is particularly visible this time of year, is that of flowers.  They can witness the whole life cycle of the flower within a few weeks time.

Regardless of the beliefs you're choosing to raise your child with, I would also urge caution introducing them to any new religious concepts that they're not already comfortable with. At least, not early on in this process. Otherwise it's largely just compounding the number of abstract concepts that the child is trying to wrap their mind around.

There are also books that you can get (check your library) that you can read to your child that may help them understand. I don't think this was as helpful for us as we had hoped, but it is kind of the 'easy button' if you're struggling to get it down on their level.  Child educators with a background in early childhood development will typically have some good recommendations.  If you need help getting some suggestions, just let me know, we have a good and reliable source.

Good luck...If you're anything like us, you'll need it.

Hungary Bill
Hungary Bill PowerDork
5/10/18 5:33 a.m.
RevRico said:

I didn't know her all that well, so I'm probably going to be watching my daughter during the funeral stuff, hopefully because I really don't think it's appropriate to take little kids to viewings and funerals, which should (maybe) make things easier?

 So how the hell are we supposed to handle explaining death to someone who barely understands the days of the week?

My mom loaded us up and took us to a cemetery.

It started with her attempt at having a conversation about the death of our uncle, it went terrible.  Eventually she loaded us up and took us to a cemetery, things were much better after that.  We walked around for a bit, saw the statues, saw the grave markers, were told to be respectful... it was good (I was 5, my brother was 3).


If you need to talk about the BS, hit me up with a PM and I'll send you my phone number.  wink

 

tuna55
tuna55 MegaDork
5/10/18 6:52 a.m.

Be frank. I talk to my kids about death a lot, and religion has a lot to do with why they don't reject that with an extreme reaction. Same for me I think.

KyAllroad (Jeremy)
KyAllroad (Jeremy) PowerDork
5/10/18 8:13 a.m.

Has she watched "The Lion King" yet?  It's surprisingly good at getting the concept of mortality across to kids.

Brian
Brian MegaDork
5/10/18 8:23 a.m.

Good luck.  As best as I can tell I knew from a very young age as my paternal grandmother passed when I was a year and a half so it was explained to me as why I only have one grandma. Probably my earliest Christmas memory was decorating the tree and asking if the angel on the top was grandma. Dad broke down bad at that.  

Other exposures included TV and movies, notably being 4 when TNG killed off Tasha Yar. My first funeral I remember was my Grandfather when I was 9.

ProDarwin
ProDarwin PowerDork
5/10/18 8:30 a.m.

I'll be following this thread because I expect I will need to have this conversation soon with my son :( 

KyAllroad (Jeremy) said:

Has she watched "The Lion King" yet?  It's surprisingly good at getting the concept of mortality across to kids.

I don't think that happens with 2 year olds.

Mine will also be 3 in early June.  He's seen The Lion King many times.  Sometimes I tear up during it, but it doesn't phase him, because he doesn't understand.  (The Land Before Time, Iron Giant, and others all get me as well)

 

Robbie
Robbie PowerDork
5/10/18 9:52 a.m.

In reply to ProDarwin :

Up is the worst, but recently the one with the kid in skeleton land is rough too.

Suprf1y
Suprf1y PowerDork
5/10/18 9:56 a.m.

At that age they won't understand and long term they won't remember either.

I wouldn't spend a lot of time on either doing it or thinking about it. Briefly tell her what happened and move on.

Driven5
Driven5 SuperDork
5/10/18 10:31 a.m.

In reply to Suprf1y :

Most kids might not form long term memories of significant life events at age 3, but some certainly will. Either way, helping them learn to understand and deal with loss and major life changes now, is building the foundation for healthy coping mechanisms in the future.  These tiny people not only have big emotions that they're already struggling just to learn how to deal with in everyday life, let alone when it involves the death of somebody close to them, but likewise big questions that they need answered as well.  There is far more to toddlers than they are given credit for.

Driven5
Driven5 SuperDork
5/10/18 10:45 a.m.
ProDarwin said:
KyAllroad (Jeremy) said:

Has she watched "The Lion King" yet?  It's surprisingly good at getting the concept of mortality across to kids.

I don't think that happens with 2 year olds.

Mine will also be 3 in early June.  He's seen The Lion King many times.  Sometimes I tear up during it, but it doesn't phase him, because he doesn't understand.  (The Land Before Time, Iron Giant, and others all get me as well)

You may still be able to use this to your advantage.  Even if he didn't understand it of his own accord, specifically bringing it up and talking through it with him might help connect the dots and get the gears turning. I don't know for sure though, since ours is averse to any movies/shows that she thinks (for whatever reason) might even possibly have such intense scenes. 

ProDarwin
ProDarwin PowerDork
5/10/18 10:52 a.m.
Robbie said:

In reply to ProDarwin :

Up is the worst, but recently the one with the kid in skeleton land is rough too.

Yeah, the end of Coco can be a bit rough - even though its happy.  Damn you Pixar!

We don't have Up in our rotation yet.

The scene in Wreck It Ralph where he smashes Venelope's car used to get me, but I've seen that movie like 200 times now so I'm used to it.

Duke
Duke MegaDork
5/10/18 12:32 p.m.

Just be straight. I personally would say that you’re not sure if she is somewhere else or not, but she’s not in this world now and so you all can’t see her anymore, and that’s why all her friends are sad. 

The worst thing you could do would be to hide it, so please don’t. 

klb67
klb67 Reader
5/10/18 12:44 p.m.

I'll just add that almost age 3 is probably just a bit too young to expect lots of questions and simple and honest is best, but kids vary.  My 3.5 year old was very interested in the logistics with great grandma.  Where?  Why the box?  How does it work?  

My wife's aunt told my wife when she was that little that X relative in the casket was "just sleeping."  It still pisses my wife off that that's how they approached it, and she knew is was B.S. back then.  

Patrick
Patrick MegaDork
5/10/18 1:02 p.m.

Well.  After the church service I told Abby we had to take great grandma to the cemetery.  Her reply:

”Are we going to put her in our trunk?”

 

84FSP
84FSP SuperDork
5/10/18 8:17 p.m.

Lots of good stuff here.  Being straight with them and letting them talk thru it with you is important.  We get the pleasure of delivering a lot of tough news to the foster kids we care for .  Candor on their level seems to work the best.  Letting them talk thru it in their own way is the real solution for them, despite how terrible it is for you to answer.

markwemple
markwemple UberDork
5/12/18 7:03 p.m.

We've had the death conversation about people and pets. It's a hard one. I'm not sure my 7 and 6 year old completely get it but they do know it's permanent and it makes them very sad. They recently lost a teacher's aide and they are still processing that one. 

Jere
Jere Dork
5/13/18 2:08 p.m.

Lots of solid answers here. I like short and sweet explanations with my daughter (6years old now). Its good to bring up "tough explanations" little by little ,when there isn't a tough situation if possible. Ideally you want to keep the kid in the logical + memory part of the brain, with facts, cause and reaction. Like if the kid asks about about some road kill, the dead plant/animal dinner/squished mosquito... Tell them  then all the basic physical facts (i suggest keeping religious rules out of it about who goes to heaven and who doesn't if that is your belief system it makes things more scary and complicated than just understanding the situation at hand ). Answer all questions simply and directly, don't avoid any.

Keep a photo of the deceased around and ask if they remember x time when they did x with so and so if they get upset (using the emotional part of the brain) . This is good for  very emotional grown ups and kids. Try not to be super emotional when explaining thing because the brain stops processing new information and facts. Don't expect an emotional reaction from the kid.

Pain fear, and loss from anothers death is learned. You can teach your kid to celebrate the life and joy in rememberance 

Scott_H
Scott_H Reader
5/13/18 8:13 p.m.

She's 3 so there is not a lot of depth to her questions she will ask.  Be straight up about it and in 3 year old level talk.  Remember that if your kid has watched almost any Disney movie, they know about death.  Keep it pretty short.  The questions that may come will be about you and her mother.  There is the potential that she will fear losing her mom and dad.  Just answer that mom and dad are just fine and neither are going to die.

 

My brother's wife died when my two were 9 and 7.  The talk was pretty short and they were sad.  There were some questions in the following days, weeks, and months.  We put far more effort into telling them than needed.  Glad we went through the mental exercise but we put more into it than what was ultimately needed.

 

Scott

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