In reply to SVreX :
Reading over my response, you are correct. I should have posted this instead:
There are 2,200 alcohol poisoning deaths in the US each year
Folks don't die immediately from tobacco, so that stat wasn't directly comparable. It does point out how deadly that legal substance is.
EastCoastMojo said:Ok guys, it's time for me to come clean and admit my addiction. I have been struggling with this since, well as long as I can remember. I am addicted to milk.
I have to have it. It's not a question of want. When you reach an addiction level like mine, you will drive to every grocery store in town if needed. I know all the stores that carry Maola, which is my favorite. It has what I crave. I don't care about chocolate milk, I can take it or leave it, but if asked about being stranded on an island and I can pick only one food to have, it would be milk.
It's not healthy for me, as I actually have a very mild lactose intolerance. I also can't stand milk substitutes or that god awful 2% crap. I've tried to quit, but I just go crazy. It's all I can think about.
Please, no milk shaming.
All i could think about after reading your post:
And that lead me to something relevant to this thread:
Out of curiosity: Has ANYONE here EVER had ANYONE tell them they’re “Struggling with weed;” I mean aside from *finding* it?
poopshovel again said:Out of curiosity: Has ANYONE here EVER had ANYONE tell them they’re “Struggling with weed;” I mean aside from *finding* it?
Nope.
Wait, what are we talking about again?
SVreX said:In reply to Joe Gearin :
...... Alcohol comparisons are completely irrelevant.
As you mention, I think most are in the same general feelings about these things, but I will have to disagree with you about the Alcohol comparison. I think it is pretty relevant:
Both are essentially in the same "class" of product. Both are use for self-medication and recreation. Both have known side effects and long term effects (I will argue, as most, that Alcohol is far worse). Both are regulated by (various forms of) government. The huge exception here is that pot is considered a schedule 1 drug by the feds (which I am sure most will see as absurd), while alcohol has a simple age restriction.
They of course use different methods of delivery but there "purpose' is very similar. It is a comparison that is very easy to relate to for most people and that is why it is useful. Relating it to car deaths is more in the range of irrelevant.
My highschool chemistry class taught me that, technically, alcohol IS a solution.
In reply to aircooled :
You’re right. It is a very useful comparison
...for the marketers.
Because people can relate to it, it is frequently used by the marketers of the marijuana industry (which will eventually be owned by the Pharma, alcohol, and tobacco industries). When we repeat that mantra, we are acting like waking billboards. And legitimate scientific research and study is thrown out the window and replaced with gross anecdotal nothingness.
That essentially the point of that article, which I don’t think very many people read.
Relevant to the discussion: The same government that classifies marijuana as a schedule 1 narcotic (“No medicinal value/high potential for abuse”) holds a patent for CBD oil.
But obviously I’m just regurgitating “big weed” propaganda and am incapable of an original thought...so just like...never mind.
SVreX said:In reply to aircooled :
You’re right. It is a very useful comparison
...for the marketers.
Because people can relate to it, it is frequently used by the marketers of the marijuana industry (which will eventually be owned by the Pharma, alcohol, and tobacco industries). When we repeat that mantra, we are acting like waking billboards. And legitimate scientific research and study is thrown out the window and replaced with gross anecdotal nothingness.
That essentially the point of that article, which I don’t think very many people read.
The point of the article is that marijuana isn't inherently good as seems to be the popular opinion of the time, and it has some bad properties and problems that come with it. It is an opinion piece. It is not incorrect, but c'mon. It is an Op Ed. I could have written the same thing about Ibuprofen or alcohol or milk or zinc.
This thread became what it did because the article didn't have anything else to really talk about. Its points were rather obvious, and it didn't actually have any data-based evidence.
Aristotle said that to be excessive or deficient in anything is wrong. Somebody who abuses or is dependent on anything like pot, alcohol, porn or whatever would benefit from some therapy to get the addiction under control. I am against making any of these things illegal because wherever there is a demand, there will be a supply. No matter what, people will get what they want, the only question is who is going to profit from it? They can't even keep drugs or alcohol out of prison, how can you keep it out of a country?
In reply to mtn :
Ok, so you didn’t read the supporting documentation of the article cited?
I realize that it is not a technical document, but some of the support documents are (more so). There are a lot more fact based assertions in that article and it’s supporting documents than in this thread.
The opinion of the article is that marijuana has some bad qualities that should be considered. It has a few facts, but not enough.
The only way to get the proper facts is with the proper research. The proper research is being avoided because we are all so busy singing the mantra “Well everyone knows it’s not as bad as alcohol, so we shouldn’t worry about it”. Let’s just stick our fingers in our ears, and pass a joint around.
Rinse, repeat.
I’m gone.
My Mom always said, "All things in moderation."
Dopers vs squares.
Hahahahhahhaaha.
Streetwiseguy said:My Mom always said, "All things in moderation."
Including moderation....
The signal/noise ratio on pot tends to be pretty bad.
Every time I hear some jackwagon tell me that pot will cure cancer, I want to slap them.
I've had more than one family member die from cancer, thanks very much. If weed were the cure, we'd damn well know about it already.
I just want to say I think the DARE program lied to me. I smoked pot one time like a month ago at a party and I still don't have a heroine addiction.
Daylan C said:I just want to say I think the DARE program lied to me. I smoked pot one time like a month ago at a party and I still don't have a heroine addiction.
That's because superhero movies are lame.
poopshovel again said:Out of curiosity: Has ANYONE here EVER had ANYONE tell them they’re “Struggling with weed;” I mean aside from *finding* it?
My dad whines about his battle with crabgrass.
The wave of recent positive press on pot seems to be all the users and proponents piling up and helping the dam break. It's legal in a few states and it won't kill you if you accidentally overdose. So now it's out of the darkness and being paraded around as everything from a harmless recreation to a miracle pain reliever.
I do believe the negative stigma it had has kept millions away from trying it, and by extension other drugs. There weren't many instances of, "welp, can't find any weed so let me try to find some coke." The images planted in my mind by school and parents kept me away from drugs. I couldn't find any if I tried. I'm lame.
I really wish my kids, 8 and 10, weren't going to see it become normalized. Of course, the burden of educating them is on me and I can make the case strongly enough that I don't want them trying it. It's just another case of "get off my lawn". Sure, but you guys are making it hard for us guys that want to hold the line.
I’ve never drank, smoked pot, or done anything else. However I’ve already warned SWMBO & the kids that when I’m old(er) and heading downhill(faster) that all bets are off. I figure I might as well try it all at least once before I kick over.
Pete Gossett said:I’ve never drank, smoked pot, or done anything else. However I’ve already warned SWMBO & the kids that when I’m old(er) and heading downhill(faster) that all bets are off. I figure I might as well try it all at least once before I kick over.
If I had known I was going to turn out like I did, I might have tried some stuff.
Lethality: About 25 years ago I did some research for a public speaking class...
Alcohol: about 10X, to 50X an effective does.
Pot: 50,000X an effective dose (thats for a small field mouse)
So this is a throw away account. I assure you I'm well known on here with a sufficiently high dork rating to prove I spend too much time here. The reason I'm using a burner ID, other than too many spy novels, is that I'm a daily weed user. In my State medical is legal and I have a genuine medical reason for the card. But at the end of the day it's still a Federal no no and while I'm sure some here know who I am, I'd appreciate the thin veil of anonymity.
My views. I'd say weed is habit forming more than truly addictive. Unfortunately some people, for reasons that medical science is only just starting to scratch the surface of, seem to pre-disposed to becoming addicted to things. It can be alcohol, tobacco, weed, porn, Beanie baby collection, whatever. Some people can handle things, others spiral out of control. For those unfortunate souls, they may just as easily have become addicted to online gambling, bible study or hookers and blow. What I find is that I like weed for a number of reasons and use it most days. However, I can and do stop using it for periods when I'm out of country, out of state, travelling, whatever. So I don't have access to it for a few days, a week or even up to three weeks. No big deal, I don’t' use it, I don't need it and I have no discernible (by myself or my family know me better than myself) side or negative effects. It's like not having access to your smartphone or running out of bacon, actually it's less stressful than either of those.
Now, the whole 'only losers, kids and unemployed bums use weed' Ha-ha, that's hilarious. I know many people who use weed, from unemployed people up through multi-millionaires who run several business and have lifestyles that most only dream of. I know men, women, young, old, liberals, republicans, libertarians, artist, engineers, scientists, devoutly religious people, atheists and more who use. Most importantly I know really nice people and total A** holes who use weed. There doesn’t seem to be a single common thread I can point too in people other than they are all homo sapiens.
The legal side is a joke. The outlawing of weed was a political move that was a combination of business greed and institutionalized racism. I think it's something that's time is coming. With nine states allowing recreational use plus 13 States decriminalizing it. Another 31 States that allow some form of medicinal use and many of those will be voting on legalization either this November or soon after. I think most people would agree that in the court of public opinion the tide has well and truly tuned and there's an opportunity for whoever the next POTUS is to at the very least drop it from the class I list and allow it for (now well proven and documented) medicinal use. Don't forget that class I supposedly means it has no medicinal use whatsoever. As for the current system, well I'm a bit of a hypocrite. The current system in my state suits me fine as medical use only. The fear of many in my State is that once it's legal for recreational use several things will happen. First it will be taxed highly, man it's expensive in Colorado, and we fear the same here. Second, there are hundreds of mom and pop growers and dispensaries, but there is already talk of 'big weed' moving into the state, which will probably kill off many of the small players. So, I like the system as it is, but once it's time I'll vote for legalization even though the current system is better for me, I will vote what I think it better for all.
I find most of the people who don't believe the law should be changed tend to be those who truly believe the old 'it's a gate way drug', 'it will make you psychotic', 'it causes crime', 'it will kill you' etc. They still honestly believe the old 'Refer madness' line of BS.
People have commented on the health risks. I think most people talking of the health risks are talking about smoking rather than edibles and liken it to smoking cigarettes. Again, that's not a fair comparison for a couple of reasons. First of all, I've never seen anyone chain-smoke a whole pack of weed, nor smoke a couple of packets a day. Second, the smoke itself isn't as dangerous as cigarettes smoke (note I said cigarette not tobacco) It tends to be just the plant itself being smoked. You buy your flowers, cut/grind/chop/tear them up, roll them and smoke. They don’t' come from a factory adding all sorts of other chemicals. Just have a look at the Wiki page on the list of additives to cigarettes, it's trully teriffying what people are taking in over and above the tobacco. Also, and this is far more important, weed is less damaging to the lungs than tobacco. There are many studies out there, referenced in many places so I will not bother here, but the gist of it is weed burns at a lower temperature than tobacco so forms less harmful compounds and is less likely to cause cancer. To be fair there are also many studies that say the exact opposite. At the end of the day, I feel much safer taking 3-4 hits of a hand rolled joint than I would smoking 5-10-15 cigarettes per day. There are also edibles. Personally, I'm not as keen on edibles; although I do make a mean weed brownie, (making cannabutter is easier and cheaper than buying it). The thing is I find it far easier to regulate my intake by smoking. When smoking you can get an immediate sense of how much you are taking in and I know how I will feel in 10 mins once it's fully in my system. With edibles I find it takes an absolute minimum of 30 mins to feel a thing. And if you can feel it in 30 mins it's means you've got a lot of it. It takes close to 90 mins to reach its peak. That can be hard to regulate. Edibles also act differently than smoking even weed that come from the same batch, again I prefer the smoke.
I've got more to say, but that's more in the realm of my personal experiences and reasons which isn't' what I wanted to comment on here so I'll stop.
I will post for SVreX here:
Total opinion, no facts, just spouting what the weed marketers say (implying it must be false).
(to be very clear, the above is in jest. Satire if you will...)
I do know of a guy DYING FROM POT. he hit a phone pole in his bug bus and the bale in back flew forward and squished him.
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