I don't mean to knock Intel, they are great, but they are pricey for the performance, an equal AMD cpu will cost less, something to consider since if this is a budget build. My build cost $500 including graphics card, I only have 4gb of ram but I haven't ever ran into a need to upgrade to more.
Ever wonder how all those processors stack up against each other? Tom's Hardware Guide publishes this handy chart each quarter.
Uncoiled wrote: I don't mean to knock Intel, they are great, but they are pricey for the performance, an equal AMD cpu will cost less, something to consider since if this is a budget build. My build cost $500 including graphics card, I only have 4gb of ram but I haven't ever ran into a need to upgrade to more.
Problem is, AMD isn't really equal anymore.
Good performance for the price, yes. Six core CPU? For less than 200?! Awesome! But they still don't out perform Intel chips.
The build I have there is 850 pretty much, and would give him stellar performance for what he needs, without breaking the bank. For 750-760 It would still trump most of AMD's products. For the same price, or a $50 margin.
Ram...is all about what you do with your comp. Do you multitask? Do you photo edit? Or run large projects in programs like Solidworks or AutoCAD? Do you run a lot of background services? Do you have a lot of messenger clients open? If you don't, then no, you don't need 8, 16, or more gigs of ram. If you do however, you quickly find out just how important having a lot of RAM is. Even on my pos Laptop with 4 gigs, I only have 1.8 gigs remaining on the table. That quickly gets mauled when doing photo editing in my case.
ScottRA21 wrote: Ram...is all about what you do with your comp. Do you multitask? Do you photo edit? Or run large projects in programs like Solidworks or AutoCAD? Do you run a lot of background services? Do you have a lot of messenger clients open? If you don't, then no, you don't need 8, 16, or more gigs of ram. If you do however, you quickly find out just how important having a lot of RAM is. Even on my pos Laptop with 4 gigs, I only have 1.8 gigs remaining on the table. That quickly gets mauled when doing photo editing in my case.
I've been doing a lot of work on this lately on a computer that has no graphics card and 2GB of RAM. Definitely making me want to spend some money on a lot of RAM.
Master http://www.dell.com/outlet and you can get more computer for less than if you built it yourself. I picked up a working box with enough memory and window's licenses to swap over my own graphics card and powersupply to beat anything I could build at newegg.com. Understand I am a huge newegg fanboy, but this outlet has screaming deals if you are patient. If you watch the v15's you can pick one up that can handle solidworks and weighs in at less than ~5lbs. My brother has that laptop and it is smoking awesome and pretty cheap.
92CelicaHalfTrac wrote: Isn't it the same hardware these days anyways? Mac hardware = PC hardware.
From a "spec" perspective, yes. They're Intel processor based with decent chip sets, and the Mac Pros usually come with server grade hardware. For example the one I'm typing this on has dual quad-core Xeons and is using ECC RAM.
The hardware design and build quality is a lot better than what you tend to get with similar workstation class PCs that I've seen recently. They're like the Sparc Stations of old before Sun cheapened their hardware, and come with similar price tags.
Would I buy a new Mac Pro? Probably not - at that point it might make sense to build a Hackintosh instead.
unevolved wrote: I've been doing a lot of work on this lately on a computer that has no graphics card and 2GB of RAM. Definitely making me want to spend some money on a lot of RAM.
No one has mentioned this I see, but it is absolutely required to go 64 Bit OS, (Windows 7 64-Bit) to recognize 4gb of ram or higher.
Also, Tom's may sell things, but I wouldn't call them a retailer. They are just one of the best review sites on the web. Which is why people normally go to Tom's HW for info, then to Newegg for prices.
P.S. I see a lot of people recommending Tiger Direct for components, and I cannot recommend that. They do have good prices sometimes, but rarely out of league with Newegg, and there customer service is nowhere near the same level. I've been into their main physical store in Raleigh and it's night and day. They also can't touch Newegg's shipping speed.
As far as Core i7 vs. Core i5, might want to actually research benchmarks on Solidworks. That core i7 is $900, and I could build a Core i5 with twice the ram (16GB) for ~$500. If Solidworks doesn't take advantage of i7 much more than i5 or offloads a bunch of the processing to the Graphics Card, that's a good savings.
I like AMD as a brand also, but at least for the last few years, it seems like they are getting pushed around by Intel in the benchmarks. Haven't checked lately.
Isn't Tom's based in Europe? Alot of their review text has language usage and idioms that makes me think so...
J308 wrote:unevolved wrote: I've been doing a lot of work on this lately on a computer that has no graphics card and 2GB of RAM. Definitely making me want to spend some money on a lot of RAM.As far as Core i7 vs. Core i5, might want to actually research benchmarks on Solidworks. That core i7 is $900, and I could build a Core i5 with twice the ram (16GB) for ~$500. If Solidworks doesn't take advantage of i7 much more than i5 or offloads a bunch of the processing to the Graphics Card, that's a good savings. I like AMD as a brand also, but at least for the last few years, it seems like they are getting pushed around by Intel in the benchmarks. Haven't checked lately.
Core i7 2600 is for Socket 1155 and is only $300.
Also, AMD is still second fiddle. Bulldozer doesn't match Sandybridge Intels unfortunately. And in any single-threaded applications, it stumbles hard.
doesnt solid works conform to OpenCL?
J308 wrote: No one has mentioned this I see, but it is absolutely required to go 64 Bit OS, (Windows 7 64-Bit) to recognize 4gb of ram or higher.
Too bad you are limited to a win platform - both Linux PAE and OS-X can do 32 bit kernels at 16G and address all of it.
Giant Purple Snorklewacker wrote:J308 wrote: No one has mentioned this I see, but it is absolutely required to go 64 Bit OS, (Windows 7 64-Bit) to recognize 4gb of ram or higher.Too bad you are limited to a win platform - both Linux PAE and OS-X can do 32 bit kernels at 16G and address all of it.
I'm at a loss: Why would you go 32 bit vs 64 bit when getting something new in the first place? Driver issues are a thing of the past for all but the most obscure hardware. 32 bit programs run under 64 bit OS's fine.
I assumed there was a reason stated - if there aren't driver or code issues with datatype sizes then I can't really think of one.
Looks like the holiday shopping crowds have just about cleaned out the Dell and Lenovo outlets. That said, right now there are three Lenovo Essential H330 SFF models in stock for $379 with pretty choice stats: Core i3 processor, 4GB ram, 1.5TB disk. Certainly a great starting point for a desktop build. Pick a graphics card and maybe a pair of ram chips from Newegg and you're good to go.
I have built nearly 2000 machines in my day (at only 27 years old)... I can safely say that I trust newegg, and to a lesser extent zipzoomfly. The only things you really need to know are to pick out a decent processor (usually one that's a few steps DOWN from the fastest bleeding edge out there gives you 90% of the performance for 50% of the price)... then match it's socket (the amount and layout of pins on it's bottom) to a decent motherboard (I usually stick with an OEM like Intel or another top tier for the mobo manufacturer like ASUS). From there you need memory (get as much as you can afford, I usually go a minimum of 4gb, but some of my larger builds are 16-32gb based on need: Autocad and other rendering programs). a power supply (get one with a good rating: corsair, antec, enermax etc) that has enough power to do what you need (google power supply calculators: all the items in the system have to run off of it, more hard drives/video cards = more power needed) then get hard drives, SSD drives are REALLY fast, but expensive per gb, spinning drives are expansive and cheap but markedly slower. Video card, make sure you get the correct card interface for your motherboard (ex: pcie x16, pcie 2.0, etc etc). Case - whatever you want that will fit all the stuff you have purchased.
for the most part its all plug and play. most things can only go in one way, and are usually very plainly labelled. the newegg.com forums and the tomsharware/anandtech forums are VERY helpful. (tomshardware also does hardware ratings usually monthly/quarterly so you can get an idea of what hardware out there is good for what you want to do with it.)...
lastly: Operating System: you can install anything you want on this, but most people are going to go with some flavor of Windows or Linux. buy accordingly.
madmallard wrote: Isn't Tom's based in Europe? Alot of their review text has language usage and idioms that makes me think so...
I think they might have expanded but the beginnings of Tom's back in the 90s were in Germany. Has grown a little since them...
ScottRA21 wrote: I'm at a loss: Why would you go 32 bit vs 64 bit when getting something new in the first place? Driver issues are a thing of the past for all but the most obscure hardware. 32 bit programs run under 64 bit OS's fine.
You wouldn't. But someone asking for PC advice could very easily end up with 32 bit Windows 7 without realizing it won't recognize the RAM. So I was just throwing it out there. 
In response to Giant Purple Snorklewacker: Likewise Linux. Someone asking about PC builds is probably not the best person to be experimenting with OS's. This is where idiot-proof-and-widely adopted Windows becomes a better solution than Linux. Linux has manual driver and program installs, as well as hardware compatibility lists and usually requires in-depth troubleshooting. This is great for those who want to learn new technology, but not so great for someone who just wants to fire up and run their programs. Win 7 already has a full-range of cut and paste solutions plastered all across the internet. Hell, I work in IT, and dual boot Win 7 and Ubuntu, and even I go back and forth about even being INTERESTED in Linux.
Even though Linux is vastly superior to Windows in some crucial ways (I literally surf the most dangerous sites on the internet, just for fun, in Linux, open source, fast as balls, plus it's berkeleying free!), it's just not as user-friendly. And yes, I realize it's been debugged to hell and back in recent years, and the knowledge base seems to triple every year. 
Zombie thread, canoe deleted
This would be a good time to let everyone know that I'm very happy with the investment I made in AMD. Bought their stock at just under $11.00 a share. Hoping for a triple in a few days.
I've always used AMD processors. Nice to hear they're taking market share from Intel (whose stock I also hold) with the Ryzen. Frankly, I've never felt that Intel's product performance justified the price premium.
1988RedT2 said:This would be a good time to let everyone know that I'm very happy with the investment I made in AMD. Bought their stock at just under $11.00 a share. Hoping for a triple in a few days.
I've always used AMD processors. Nice to hear they're taking market share from Intel (whose stock I also hold) with the Ryzen. Frankly, I've never felt that Intel's product performance justified the price premium.
My algorithm had me buy at $16. I had to jump out and back into index funds at around $20, because I dind't have the time to monitor my algo for awhile. can't look at hte stock price right now.
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