Obama and the younger generation

Dr. Hess wrote: Salanis, your memory of the weapons inspectors is missing a key part from back then. It was widely believed that Saddam Hussain had fully penetrated/bought off the weapons inspectors, and that their every move was monitored and orchestrated. Where they were going for the day or week was known to the Iraqis and they had teams clean up those areas before the inspectors arrived. If they changed their plans at the last minute, "car trouble" or other restrictions were put on them and they didn't go there. It was a sham. Even the mainstream newsmedia was reporting it as such back then. You are also forgetting to mention the tons of uranium that came out of Iraq after the US took over, the biological warfare factory trucks that they found, the chemical weapons that are still showing up as the Pavement Challenged try to use them as IED's, and the pieces of nuclear refinement equipment that show up burried in people's gardens. Also, the Bulgarians insist that the 911 planner guy met with Hussain's intel guy in their country prior to 911. If there's one thing the Bulgarians can do, it's keep track of what's happening inside their own country. If you just read CNN.com then you'll miss those little pieces and anything else that doesn't directly support the next Democratics candidate or agenda.

Don't know where you got that. I get most of my news from NPR, which I listen to most mornings on my commute for the past couple of years. No offense, but you tend to draw from more biased sources than I do.

Once again, let us hypothetically say Hussein had these weapons (when the best evidence was that he had not been building up since be substantially disarmed). So? Where was the immediate threat in that? Hell, there wasn't even a long-term threat to us. There are plenty of countries and dictators out there with chemical and biological weapons, who we don't particularly care about. There are places that are much looser with keeping track of their armament (like the Soviet Bloc). Even if he had weapons, his military was not large enough to launch any kind of offensive. "But those weapons could be used for terrorism"? You can't really pull that off as a nation, because it's still clear who did it, and if you can't back it up with men holding guns, the bigger guys you ticked off will come drop bombs on you. This was a war to pre-empt a war that there was no indication was coming and, if it did, wouldn't even be targeted at us.

Rebuilding Iraq is very different from rebuilding Europe. As pointed out, we started the war in Iraq. The WW's were already underway when we stepped in. The other big thing, is the cultural make-up. The European countries have fairly defined cultural identities. The French are French. The Germans are Germans. Those countries also have a history of being able to communicate and get along okay at times. Iraq was carved out of European imperial colonies. It took multiple ethnic groups, who historically have hated each other and have never gotten along, and forced them all into the confines of a country where they still hate each other and don't get along. "Peace" and stability have only been capable there when ruled by a tyrannical dictator who has focused the majority of their efforts on internal control.

Whatever Jensenman, your memory and mine clearly differ. We would have been insane to have had no post war plans for Iraq. Some of them, like the quit smoking campaign, were priceless in their hilarity.

Jensenman wrote: skappesitover, there were some plans being made for rebuilding AFTER the invasion. I clearly remember the squalling by the German and French companies who were cut out of the bidding process AFTER the war started since their respective governments were not interested in helping oust Saddam. I seem to recall they started making noises about that prior to the invasion. Maybe that's what you were thinking of. Re: are the wars over? It depends on your definition of 'over'. Most people take it that when the old government is out and a new one is installed (true in both Afghanistan and Iraq), the war is over. Now it's time to win the peace, which is much harder.

Hey, getting back on the original thread subject: how about Obama backing out of the publicly funded campaign pledge that he made? Looks like we gots us just another politician.

He kinda sorta did. He pledge to only use public funds if McCain did. I don't think any politician is going to be constrained by using public funds.

Yes, he's another politician. They all are. Carter was the last (and one of the few) non-politician to become president. Even if you think he had good ideas, he was a crappy president because he couldn't politic.

This is an interesting read: http://web.israelinsider.com/Articles/Politics/12939.htm

I find it interesting that the BHO campaign flaunts a crude photochopped birth certificate to try to dispell rumors. Is this what the Lizard Queen has been holding back? WIll BHO do the "I didn't know..." defense? Or "Well, that's close enough for Presidential Work" defense? What are they hiding with the real birth certificate? skappesitover, what's the official Democratic Party Line on this?

Edit: Had the wrong link.

Man robs store with banana?

edit: oops for some reason after i clicked on the link i was reading a different article.

Hess, why the hell are you quoting an Israeli magazine? I mean, this story is so BS that you can't even find a blatantly Right-Wing newsource to spew the rumor.

I've seen the story in other areas too, that one just came up today. The US media doesn't want to touch it for some reason. I wonder if the LQ isn't holding out for this. As devious as she is, I would put nothing past her. Guess we'll see in Denver. One would hope that he had such things cleaned up before going through all the trouble of running for the nomination. But why would his campaign put up a photochopped certificate?

GlennS, I edited the link. Stoopid copy button.

I have no idea of what the DNC's line is but I think it's funny as hell.

A current margin of victory of something like 17% makes the opposition even more bat E36 M3 crazy than they were before. I suspect before too long we will get images of Senator Obama being born on the moon in the shadow of that flag flopping in the wind.....

Dr. Hess wrote: The US media doesn't want to touch it for some reason.

Because it's B.S.

Using my English-Major Powers, would you like me to count the number of ways in which this article is B.S.? I saw three right off the bat.

It could very well be BS. But, they did the same thing to Little Mac, who was born in Panama. So, it's only fair game.

doitover wrote: I have no idea of what the DNC's line is but I think it's funny as hell. A current margin of victory of something like 17% makes the opposition even more bat E36 M3 crazy than they were before. I suspect before too long we will get images of Senator Obama being born on the moon in the shadow of that flag flopping in the wind.....

We would never put up that picture, because everyone knows that flag is flying in an Arizona sound stage.

but McCain really WAS born in Panama, so how is it "the same thing"? no one had to make that up. the only question was the effect of his being born outside the US.

the "obama was born in another country" crap is just that. more garbage, just like the "obama is a secret gay muslim space alien" stuff.

The same thing part is questioning the eligibility to be President, which is quite spelled out. No foreigners allowed, even if naturalized. I think it's likely BS too, and I suspect a LQ connection in the whole thing, not part of the Vast Right Wing Conspiracy (C) HRC.

Obama is gay? I didn't know that. Do you have a link?

Hes gay for change!

Yes he is gay, but they arrested the guy that claimed it after he spoke to, I think, the National Press Club. Apparently he has a multi year record for fraud and has outstanding warrents. Or so they say, it was probably the Cintons again.

Dr. Hess wrote: The same thing part is questioning the eligibility to be President, which is quite spelled out. No foreigners allowed, even if naturalized. I think it's likely BS too, and I suspect a LQ connection in the whole thing, not part of the Vast Right Wing Conspiracy (C) HRC. Obama is gay? I didn't know that. Do you have a link?

More interesting birth certificate stuff at http://web.israelinsider.com/Articles/Politics/12993.htm

There's a pic of the (ah-hem, alleged) forged document blown up and two real ones. So, does the LQ know something we don't? Oh, yeah, but is it this and will she play it to capture the D nomination? Would that upset the "change for hope for change" crowd? Around here, I'm still seeing more Ron Paul bumper stickers than BHO ones, even though RP only got like 500 votes in the whole state.

Document forensics expert: Obama "birth certificate" a "horrible forgery" The purported Certification of Live Birth published by the Daily Kos left wing blog and claimed as genuine by the Obama campaign features a security border that differs dramatically from security borders on COLB documents before and after the one supposedly printed out for Obama in 2007. Barack Obama may be on a world tour surrounded by a fawning media, but Sunday an expert in electronic document forensics released a detailed report on the purported birth certificate -- actually a "Certification of Live Birth" or COLB -- claimed as genuine by his campaign. The expert concludes with 100% certainty that it is a crudely forged fake: "a horribly forgery," according to the analysis published on the popular right-wing Atlas Shrugs blog. The purported birth certificate was published by the left wing Daily Kos blog on June 12 in response to unconfirmed reports that Obama was not in fact born in the United States (Canada and Kenya were suggested as the possible locations of his actual birth). Since he would in that case not be a natural born US citizen (his mother was not present in the US sufficiently long as an adult to pass American citizenship on to him automatically), he would not be eligible to be president. Israel Insider has followed the story in five previous articles (the previous one here) and uncovered evidence, most recently, of admitted forgery among Daily Kos bloggers, tolerance of electronic forgeries on the blog site, as well as efforts by a blog administrator to conceal the admission of forgery. The latest examinaton of the purported documents is by far the most detailed and technically sophisticated to date. Atlas Shrugs publisher Pamela Geller reports that the expert analyst, who goes by the screen name "Techdude", is "an active member of the Association of Certified Fraud Examiners, American College of Forensic Examiners, The International Society of Forensic Computer Examiners, International Information Systems Forensics Association -- the list goes on. He also a board certified as a forensic computer examiner, a certificated legal investigator, and a licensed private investigator. He has been performing computer-based forensic investigations since 1993 (although back then it did not even have a formal name yet) and he has performed countless investigations since then." The pseudonym was apparently inadequate to prevent Techdude's identity from being exposed. He reports that last week one or more persons "decided to track me down and vandalize my car and hang a dead mutilated rabbit from my front door in a lame attempt to intimidate me from proceeding with releasing any details of my analysis. They did succeed in delaying the report by a few days but instead of deterring me they just really pissed me off. To their credit, if I had not taken a few days off from the analysis I would have missed the most damning piece of evidence -- the remnants of the previous security border." Techdude's detailed report, which runs more than 3000 words and 20 pages with extensive magnified illustrations and comparisons, reaches the following conclusion about the documented that was first published on the Daily Kos extreme left-wing blog and subsequently publicly endorsed by the Obama campaign, both in statements by official spokesmen, and featured on its "Fight the Smears" website. Here are some of conclusions: "The (Daily) KOS image security border pattern does not match any known specimen from any known year. It does not match the pre-2006 nor does it match the post-2006 certificate patterns. The placement of the text in all of the pre-2006 and post-2006 certificates are almost identical pixel location matches while the image?s text placement does not match any known specimen from any known year. The shape and kerning of the fonts used in the 2006 through 2008 certificates are identical while the shape and kerning of the fonts used in the image does not match any known specimen. The KOS image shows clear signs of tampering such as the mismatch in RGB and error levels, visible indications of the previous location of the erased security border, easily detectable patterns of repeating flaws around the new security border, EXIF data that says the image was last saved with Photoshop CS3 for Macintosh, and finally a technician from Hawaii who confirms it just looks wrong." The evidence, he says, allows for two possible scenarios by which the document was fabricated: "There are two obvious scenarios used to create the image that can be ascertained from evidence. Either a real COLB was scanned into Photoshop and digitally edited or a real COLB was first scanned to obtain the graphic layout then blanked by soaking the document in solvent to remove the toner. After rescanning the blank page to a separate image the graphics from the previously obtained scan could then be easily applied to the blank scan after some editing and rebuilding. It would also explain why date stamp bleeds through the paper and the various bits of toner located around the image as well as the remnants of the previous location of a security border." The purported birth certificate was published by the Daily Kos on June 12 in response to unconfirmed reports that Obama was not in fact born in the United States (Canada and Kenya were suggested as the possible locations of his actual birth). Since he would in that case not be a natural born US citizen (his mother was not present in the US sufficiently long as an adult to pass American citizenship on to him automatically), he would not be eligible to be president. After more than a month of controversy and demands that the Obama campaign produce a paper birth certificate for analysis, this damning new evidence raises the stakes for the democratic party and its front-runner. Will Obama and his people continue to stonewall in the facing of the mounting evidence of forgery, and provide paper proof of an authentic, original birth certificate or even a genuine secondary Certificate of Live Birth? And will the mass media and mainstream pundits -- which so far have hesitated to touch the hot potato -- finally address the loaded issue of his possible unfitness to meet the basic Constitutional requirement for a President? Perhaps the outspoken Israeli press corps will be able to do what their fawning American counterparts have failed to do so far. Obama's visit this week to Israel will be an opportunity to begin asking the tough questions -- however unpolitically correct -- about his apparently forged birth certificate and what that means for his citizenship status and Constitutional fitness to be the next leader of the free world.

If he wasn't born here, wouldn't this have been straitend out yet?

Wow, an Israeli news source is reporting on how the publisher of something called "Atlas Shrugs" had a document that was published by a blog was analyzed by a guy who goes by the name "Techdude".

This must be real too, because Techdude's car got vandalized and he had a dead rabbit hung on his door. Good thing he's not afraid of this serious level of strong-arm intimidation, which has been so successful at keeping every American news-source quiet on this topic.

I'm kind of surprised Limbaugh didn't cover this though. I wouldn't expect him to be intimidated by these kind of tactics. I'd figure he'd just eat the rabbit.

I heard he's a muslim and hates white people....

Also the New Yorker just had a cover that accurately depicts Obama, his views, and his past actions...

I mean Duh.

We've seen videos of him and his wife doing the fist-bump. Surely everything else depicted must also be true.

Salanis wrote: We've seen videos of him and his wife doing the fist-bump. Surely everything else depicted must also be true.

word...

How can they let that sort of riff raff into the white house.. let alone the senate..

So Obama is a gay muslim racist that snuck across the border to become our president?

No, he's a gay muslim racist extra-terrestrial. They had to forge the birth certificate when he was sent her from the planet Zargon to form part of the first wave of infiltration.

I heard hes the reincarnation of Xenu ... I'm just saying he's the body theton..