Toyman01 wrote: In reply to KyAllroad: Crosscuts aren't that bad, but power saws aren't exactly a new invention. I've still got the crosscut saw, but I don't think my father ever had to use it and he grew up on the farm.
We've pulled our crosscut down off the wall a few times for a pair of freaking giant white oaks that were a more than our 20" chainsaws could do. It actually wasn't as bad as I expected. Hung the saw back on the wall after cleaning it. 
WOW Really Paul? wrote:Toyman01 wrote: In reply to KyAllroad: Crosscuts aren't that bad, but power saws aren't exactly a new invention. I've still got the crosscut saw, but I don't think my father ever had to use it and he grew up on the farm.We've pulled our crosscut down off the wall a few times for a pair of freaking giant white oaks that were a more than our 20" chainsaws could do. It actually wasn't as bad as I expected. Hung the saw back on the wall after cleaning it.
My grandparents had this beautiful 18th century 70 acre farm for a while when I was growing up. Granddad refused to buy a chainsaw for said farm, opting instead to break out the two man crosscut saw (which was probably legitimately older than he is) whenever the situation called for it. On one such occasion, a wind storm took down an oak tree that was over 3' in diameter. Took literally all day to make three cuts, with my dad, my uncle, my granddad, and I trading off the work.
Chainsaws are a glorious invention.
My grandparents farm was typical of the time. Early 1900's. But as soon as the dirt road that was impassable in the spring was paved and electricity installed. things changed. Much less work, even went from horses to a tractor. So, for them, it was converting to living off the grid to on the grid. A furnace now provided heat instead of feeding two stoves. The wood shed was now empty. No more out house when running water was supplied and no hand pumps or carrying pails of water.
TRoglodyte wrote: Split off a true cord of wood by hand and get back me. Oak if you please.
Compared to sweet gum, oak is easy peasy.
Everyday I dream about living on small acreage plot in the mountains of Puerto Rico, or maybe in central America if the drug trade ever allowed those countries to not be so corrupt.
Property is cheap in Puerto Rico.
Continuing this wander afield of the OP. Check out osage orange (aka hedge-apple). Apparently the highest BTU density wood in North America.
I'll never try to split it again. Ever.
PHeller wrote: Everyday I dream about living on small acreage plot in the mountains of Puerto Rico, or maybe in central America if the drug trade ever allowed those countries to not be so corrupt. Property is cheap in Puerto Rico.
Great place to visit, but my recent events tell me that I would not want to get sick or die there.
But you would want ONE on grid thing for any island or central America- weather radio. Knowing how high winds get in the mountains of Puerto Rico, you would really need to have a stout structure, too. Hurricanes are a bitch.
(on the other hand, mountain living means no need for A/C)
Still, bugs and other small night creatures would probably have me steer clear of tropical places.
spitfirebill wrote:TRoglodyte wrote: Split off a true cord of wood by hand and get back me. Oak if you please.Compared to sweet gum, oak is easy peasy.
Yup, you'll want to get it done quickly because you still got hogs to slaughter and get in the smokehouse, (After you build it.)
alfadriver wrote:PHeller wrote: Everyday I dream about living on small acreage plot in the mountains of Puerto Rico... Property is cheap in Puerto Rico.Great place to visit, but my recent events tell me that I would not want to get sick or die there. Still, bugs and other small night creatures would probably have me steer clear of tropical places.
What recent events did you have that have got you concerned about medical care on the island? Aren't your parents in PR?
PHeller wrote: Everyday I dream about living on small acreage plot in the mountains of Puerto Rico, or maybe in central America if the drug trade ever allowed those countries to not be so corrupt. Property is cheap in Puerto Rico.
So what is stopping you? PR is probably as good as you can get for "Off the grid living until I panic and decide I need the benefits of the grid"
About the only problem I have with PR is that unless it is tied down, your E36 M3 gets stolen. It's like a national pastime. And that having to worry about theft from my neighbors is one of the reasons why I would go off grid in the fist place. Maybe go a bit off shore to Culebra? Bit less theft if they have to wait in line at the ferry to get home with your stolen tools.
If you do decide to go off grid PR style, I would at least do so near Guavate. That way in case of emergency you can always head down off the mountain to the Lechon Highway for emergency rations
PHeller wrote:alfadriver wrote:What recent events did you have that have got you concerned about medical care on the island? Aren't your parents in PR?PHeller wrote: Everyday I dream about living on small acreage plot in the mountains of Puerto Rico... Property is cheap in Puerto Rico.Great place to visit, but my recent events tell me that I would not want to get sick or die there. Still, bugs and other small night creatures would probably have me steer clear of tropical places.
In laws, and both have had hospital stays. Terrible system- but we were pretty much told that there is a big shortage of doctors and nurses. I'd rather get sick in Michigan.
One just passed, and the laws surrounding banking laws are really problematic- being that my wife and sister don't live there, they could not get on the bank accounts, even though they had power of attorney. And using the POA was a PITA.
I just can't see me retiring there.
I feel like this is a question of two camps: live simply and cheaply vs I hate humanity.
The latter is a tough road to hoe, most of the benefits of the former can be reaped from a tiny house
I require internet. Real internet, not satellite.
I also want to be close enough to go somewhere to buy food. I was out in the boonies in a cabin last weekend, and I was shocked at how far (both time and distance) I was from a store that sold any real food. It was like 25+minutes to something that had the equivalent of what you'd find on the shelf at a gas station. I want access to some fresh meats/vegetables/etc.
Other than that I think it could be fun. Small, super efficient house. I'd want septic, a well, water collectors, solar power, etc. I'd enjoy being somewhat green from a minimalist perspective.
As a teen i spent the summers 8 miles straight up a fire road from pavement in lodging with little electricity, no running water and learned how too live from my grandmother. Aside from missing cars and the internet id be fine. If i need too do it im perfectly comfortable with it. My wife wouldnt last 2 weeks.
My grandmother was an ex marine who wanted to be as far from the city as she could get after retiring. A life working and living in baltimore can do that i guess.
I am sure I could but I zero interest in it.
ProDarwin wrote: I require internet. Real internet, not satellite. I also want to be close enough to go somewhere to buy food. I was out in the boonies in a cabin last weekend, and I was shocked at how far (both time and distance) I was from a store that sold any real food. It was like 25+minutes to something that had the equivalent of what you'd find on the shelf at a gas station. I want access to some fresh meats/vegetables/etc. Other than that I think it could be fun. Small, super efficient house. I'd want septic, a well, water collectors, solar power, etc. I'd enjoy being somewhat green from a minimalist perspective.
HA! I bought my first house that was 25 minutes from any sort of real food supply. We had a community utility district and internet but it was a solid 25 minutes to a grocery store.
I grew up in Wyoming County, WV. We were a long ways away from a decent town. It was usually a 1.5 hour trip into Beckley to get to any name brand stores. I've lived that life so it's not forgein to me but it's been nearly 20 years.
The thing I keep coming back to is money. No way to really make it without some form of income.
KyAllroad wrote: Continuing this wander afield of the OP. Check out osage orange (aka hedge-apple). Apparently the highest BTU density wood in North America. I'll never try to split it again. Ever.
Growing up we used Hickory and Ash. Drop 10-12 trees in the spring. Go back in mid-late october and drag them out and cut them up. Some of the best fire wood right there and didn't have to worry about gumming up the chimney with the sap. WE supplied 2 houses like that for years. Don't miss swinging an 8lb maul on those logs one bit.
What I do miss is that heat. We had a forced air wood furnace growing up on a thermostat. Set that thing to 74 in the winter, fill the furnace and it'd run 8-10 hours untouched. Damn that was a fantastic feeling of warmth. Our electric heat now feels cold comparatively.
As for heat, the old locust trees around the house were amazing for heat produced, but they had 2 problems. First was the sap content would clog a flue fast. 2nd was they didn't last. fill the furnace with it and it's last 4 hours tops. Fill it with hichory or ash and it'd last 8-10 hours.
Flight Service wrote: HA! I bought my first house that was 25 minutes from any sort of real food supply. We had a community utility district and internet but it was a solid 25 minutes to a grocery store.
25 mins to a grocery story is E36 M3ty but tolerable. 25 mins to a shelf of pop-tart, oreos and soda... no thanks.
KyAllroad wrote: Continuing this wander afield of the OP. Check out osage orange (aka hedge-apple). Apparently the highest BTU density wood in North America. I'll never try to split it again. Ever.
Heh-- there's the old line about fence posts made from hedge lasting longer than stone...
Prior to wwII most of America was rural/farm and self-sufficient in more of an asset-based economy (you created something of value and sold it - not the same necessarily as subsistence). Today, most of us are working for someone else in a metro/urban area in a debt-based economy. The expectation for most is to follow suit - get a nice job, a family, a mortgage and join the club. I'd rather be moving toward working for myself and creating my own little corner. That was good enough for my family for thousands of years - up to my father's generation. As far as off-grid - why on earth would I want to do that? 90% or more of the accumulated human knowledge ever created is at my fingertips - well that or I could just play angry birds.
Right, I think many people are searching for a way out of the rat race, not necessary a way out of society.
The ideal situation would be work your ass off, pay off a house in a cheap place to live, find a job that you enjoy that supports your family and allows you plenty of time to do what you want. Whether that's working for someone else or yourself.
I still think we American's are forced into working way too many hours with far too little vacation time, but that's my drum and I'll continue beating it.
I really want nothing to do with people or communities or civilization anymore. If I didn't have obligations I would have nothing to do with it. If I could, I would spend the rest of my life without any further human contact at all.
PHeller wrote: I still think we American's are forced into working way too many hours with far too little vacation time, but that's my drum and I'll continue beating it.
Agree and disagree.
Yes, our standard work weeks/years are pretty intense. It is annoying that I can't search for a job that pays 80% what mine does and only requires me to work 4 days a week. But how else do corporations compete with societies where people can put in 60+ hours/week?
At the same time, our spending habits are nuts and in general we burn through our income at alarming rates. With a more reasonable approach to spending, most people would find themselves retired like 20+ years earlier, where the situation you described above is much more achievable.
calteg wrote: I feel like this is a question of two camps: live simply and cheaply vs I hate humanity. The latter is a tough road to hoe, most of the benefits of the former can be reaped from a tiny house
I think you nailed it.
Heroin comes in a lot of flavours ...Mansions, Jewelry, Luxury Cars, Fine Dinning, Private Schools and Expensive Vacations. And they are all just as addicting.
The thing about the rat race is that it is an illusion. If you don't get on the wheel you don't have to play the game. And you don't HAVE to get on the wheel.
Watch it from the sidelines.
Two white collar incomes, while living in a blue collar hood in a paid for house does wonders for your ability to care less and less about the rat race. Not off the grid perhaps, but under the radar.
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