Rebuilt title vehicle, buy or not to buy

I have been down to 1 vehicle for our family of 5 for over 6 months, we both work from home so it hasn't been a big deal, just annoying at times. Normally I stay away from Rebuilt vehicles but on facebook the car looked super nice it was Kia Niro, however the seller was vague with some of the questions (his Friend is the one that did the repair work) and had never sold any items on facebook. I had offered him $1500 less then what he was asking and it was about $2-3k cheaper that the clean title version, ( I said pending inspection). He was from Columbus but visiting Cleveland and  was nice enough to drive it over for me to look at. The hood was crooked about 1/4" which did not show in the pictures and there was a crack in the windshield that was circular (it looked very odd), and the windshield fluid did not work, and one final item I noticed is it was getting only 25MPG which I thought was strange? maybe cause he left it running or the cold weather? again he never mentioned any of of the items I mentioned, everything else seemed fine, new tires & brakes and it drove fine. I thought about offering him less but was in a time crunch, I had to get back to work, so I said no. He didn't really care and drove off.  I could make him another offer, based on what I saw, or I can just walk away, I am not desperate but if I could get another $1-2k off it would definitely make this interesting to me. What are the Hives thoughts? Offer? Run/walk away?

They're worth 50% of non rebuilt at most, and see if your insurance will cover it. 

Hard pass.

I've done two.  One was a Sonoma that I saw before and after the repairs.  It had been sideswiped and I knew there was no real structural damage.  I bought it when I still lived in TX for about 60% of its retail value.  I drove it for about 3 years and moved to PA where I planned to sell it and buy a 4x4.  I thought - clean texas truck with no rust would sell in a minute.  It took a year and a half, and I had to slash the price, and deliver it to OH to sweeten the deal.  It didn't matter that I had pictures of the damage and a copy of the repair documentation that showed bondo, fenders, and paint.

When you buy a vehicle with a branded title, you become one of the tiny percentage of people who would accept a branded title.  If you ever need to sell it, you are selling back to that tiny percentage of people.  You've effectively limited your market to a very small number, especially with a relatively common vehicle.  People will search FBM for a used Niro, find 20 without branded titles and one with.  Which one do you think they'll completely ignore.

I briefly considered buying an R-title Jag XJR because I wanted it so badly I could taste it.  It was my only way at the time to afford it.  Thank goodness I came to my senses.  I would rather have zero Jags than have one with an R title.

It depends on your state and your insurance company, but most will only write a policy for liability only.  The number-crunchers have already written it off and don't want to insure something that (to them) has a value of zero.

Assuming it's insurable, the only way I'd consider it is if I was planning to drive the thing into the ground with no intention of ever selling it.  Also assuming that I was comfortable with the quality of repairs, and that it wasn't likely to fall apart or eat tires.

I bought a salvage rebuilt car once... not a cheap one either.  Couldn't sell it.  Couldn't kill it either.  Car was passed-down to family and friends 6 successive times over the course of 17 years.  I lost track of it a few years ago but I wouldn't be surprised if it is still going.

I had the best possible outcome and I still wouldn't do it again.

In reply to trigun7469 :

I'm not at all scared of a car with a rebuilt title if it has clear pictures of what the car was like with the damage.  It looks like that's what you've posted up above.  That doesn't look bad to me.   But I would expect them to have repaired the windshield washer fluid squirter and the windshield.

It wouldn't have passed inspection here in Indiana with those two faults.

1988RedT2 said:

Assuming it's insurable, the only way I'd consider it is if I was planning to drive the thing into the ground with no intention of ever selling it.  Also assuming that I was comfortable with the quality of repairs, and that it wasn't likely to fall apart or eat tires.

This. Ive done a few. They are essentially valueless when wrecked or sold  so expect to lose every penny. 

Flip it quarter if i do another 

Pretty much everyone here is spot on.  If someone offers me a twin-turbo Lambo with a salvage title for $30k, giddyup!  For a comoddity car like a Niro, no way.  

I've had a few vehicles with branded titles and they've virtually all been fine, with the exception of a Saturn when my wife and I moved back to the US and didn't have any money. That car was a heap. Also, y'know, Saturn.

My experience may not be representative, but I've had quite good luck with restored-title vehicles. 

Pass everyday and twice on Sunday. 

MAYBE, MAYBE if the work had been done by a good shop, but not "my friend fixed it."

To be honest, probably the only way I'd ever buy a salvage/rebuilt car is if it was for something to turn into a track car. Like a first gen BRZ and K swap it or something. 

I drive a modded salvage titled Golf R as a daily. I paid $13k for it, I got rear ended to the tune of $6800 and the insurance company covered it after I told them it had about $10k in modifications. That was at about 110k miles.

It was a collision guy's daily until he moved an hour further from his shop and bought a TDI Golf.

Here in NH the Salvage Title inspection is pretty stringent. 

Here's the part that cautions me:  

...however the seller was vague with some of the questions (his Friend is the one that did the repair work) and had never sold any items on facebook. 

He was from Columbus but visiting Cleveland

Not to be racist but all this assures me that the sellers name is not easy to pronounce.  

Here's how the game seems to work.  Someone in this group of friends/family/church-group has a dealers license.  Cars are bought at auction and put back together.  What they lack is a sales force.  So, the cars are then listed on FB by friends/family/church-group members.  Ohio requires a salesman lisence to sell cars for a dealer.  This salesman license goes all the way down to a background check.  And, if the salesman is then working in the US as a Salesman then a work visa needed too...likely.    
Which part/parts of this seem like they might not be happening?

The title will not be in the "sellers" name.  They will want to keep you from meeting the seller, etc.  The part about being new to  FB says to me they do not want to be found after.    

How do I know this?  
My second Prius. a car I bought in 2017 (7 years and 130k miles ago and has been a wonderful car) was exactly this.  FB ad out of Westlake and saw the car at Asian 20-somethings apt.  Turns out the car is actually titled to an uncle.  

I pushed and ultimately met the uncle at his shop at E.85 and Franklin...deep hood.  He recognized I knew cars and as a fleet owner he was interested in selling me more cars.  He showed me his operation which was low rent body shop with cheap, inner city, black labor of almost exclusively Prius and Camry rebuilds.    I studied what he does and yes, I could have seen myself buying another car from him...except, I just learned from the experience and stated buying them wrecked, directly and cut him out.  

It was years ago but there was some shaddy sale tax shinanigans also that he was trying to pull against the state.  I dont remember the details but imagine two sales forms.  One for the $6k he sold the car to me and then the proper sales tax collected by him as a dealer (per Ohio law) and then another sales contract that he sold it for on $4.5k and therefore the state thinks he collected less sales tax.  That difference in sales tax stays in his pocket...or something.  

Do you have the VIN?  A simple search of just the 17 digits is very likely to pull up the old Copart aution photos.  I'd like to see those to understand the damage and what to look for.  Seem they gave you a LF picture but did you get a right side picture?  Which side had more damage?  Did they only show the lightly hi side?  

PS:  Since were are in the same market it was easy to find the car.   I feel vindicated about what I wrote above all the way down to the 20-something salesperson.  

Ad reads:

Kia niro 2017 with mileage 86000 with a rebuild title, runs well and smooth. No money owed and it’s one owner.

• I hate the One Owner statement.  This guy didn't buy it from the dealership, that would have been the first owner.  Its a dealer trick meaning "only one owner before me."  

Summary: 

I'd want more pictures that damage was actually light.  If it was then this is a $13k car pre-accident asking $8k now.  Expect repairs to have been the cheapest version available.  When I do repairs like this that means used panels in correct factory color.  If the repair operation is large enough then they have spary guns and can paint cheaply.  

My Prius was aftermarket front bumper cover painted quickly.  You can see the paint runs.  Aftermarket front fender.  Seven year later pant has less shine.  Used, correct color passenger door.  Toyota puts vin tags on all panels and the door wears a different vin and humorously that door has its vin etched into the windows.  My hood is original but had a scratch rather than replace the hood...cheap.  

I expect that the Niro has a busted windshield washer bottle but they saved the dollars rather than replace it under the hopes a buyer wouldn't notice.  Windshield was also accident damage and thats a high dollar fix so they left it.  

Only you can answer if the savings is enough to accept the cheapo repairs.  For me, it was and it all worked out fine.   My purchase was $5,800 w/110k for a car that was 10 years old at the time.  This car is also 10 years old and $8k buys what $5.8k bought back then.  Similar purchase.  Similar risk.  

I've seen this movie. It doesn't have a happy ending.

In reply to trigun7469 :

Buy this $2,700 Prius from GRMer

In reply to John Welsh :

John, thanks for taking the time to write up and share your experience.  I appreciate your perspective. 

I've owned a few Rebuilt title vehicles and overall I've had no issues but you have to go in with your eyes open and buy it at the right price. 

96 Tahoe I bought from a guy I know around 2009. Was a theft recovery that had no damage or issues when it was recovered. Paid $2500 for it and drove it for a couple years. Traded it for a rough, clean title 98 Cobra. Wish I would have kept the Tahoe.

08 Volvo C30 I bought from insurance auction for around $1100 after fees. Spent another $1000 on body parts and paint. Then another $1000 on aftermarket wheels and tires later on. Sold it for $3800. Regret buying the wheels and tires.

02 S-10 zr2 from insurance auction for $800 after fees. $150 at u-pull-it got it fixed. Another couple hundred in tune-up and maintenance. Dad still uses it to haul trash and knock around in. Could easily get $2000-2500 if we wanted to sell it.

2018-ish 7x14 enclosed trailer from insurance auction for around $900 after fees. Some scrap steel tubing I had laying around to fix the sidewall framework and $250 for an axle and we still have it. Several buddies have used it to move. 

In reply to trigun7469 :

I'm shopping on your behalf:  

Elantra GT '14 w/115k at $4.5k  New cat was probably this dealer's way of chassing a CEL light to pass local smog.  

In reply to John Welsh :

John you figured most of it out, he was in Cleveland for Immigration court and is from Uganda. I actually did as you said and probably learned it from you or GRM to lookup the salvage auction days before and sent him photos asking how it was fixed. He seemed to indicate he and his friend have a connection with the junkyard, looking at junkyard prices for the bumper and fender they seem similar to aftermarket prices (Maybe $500 or less in body parts). However the pictures does not show in his facebook listing huge crack in the front windshield and the hood in which he did not replace is leaned up against the lens on the driverside. The paint looked good however it was crusted with salt from driving, mechnically the car seemed fine and drove great. There is a video of someone using these as a tow vehicle for a spec miata which I might be trading for a enclosed trailer soon for my kart, so I thought it would be nice to beat this up instead of my leased cx9.

My plan for sorting out the title was to have the bill of sale ready before he came and confirm his information, unfortunately I waited until the day of, and it was a crazy work day, I didn't follow through because to be honest I just wanted to look at the car first (As i figured there would be red flags). Another rookie mistake was I didn't look at the title, the plan was to move forward we were going right to the notary and DMV, that didn't seem to bother him so maybe he wasn't jumping the title? or someone from his church ect.. wasn't jumping the title. In all honesty it checked the boxes for me mechanically and I sort of expected something to be wrong with it. I have owned a rebuilt car in the past so I understand that liability only for insurance, being hard to sell and might have different fender colors, but the hood not lining up pumped the brakes for me. However I figured that this is a hard sell for him because Niro's aren't exactly a popular car, so that I could throw him a low enough offer to feel comfortable and get a picture of the title to rest my fears at a later time when I am not watching my kids and trying to work at the same time . I am still thinking about it, might throw a low offer.

The listing pictures give a great picture of the left side and then the right side is shown with doors open.  The open door hides the front fender and all the doors open hides how well the panels line up with each other or paint match.  

So, you found auction pictures?  
Does it say what they paid?  That might be helpful to figuring what they have into the car and then finding their bottom dollar. 

Does it say when the auction was which would thereby indicate how long they have had the car?   The ad it 6 weeks old, that's a slow sale.  Even if the repaired it quickly, they probably waited 4 weeks for a inspection appointment.  They might be eager to turn this vehicle.  Some money is better than no money.

Does a google search of the vin provide any leads to finding the original owner?  

I am encouraged that the kid drove the car 2 hours north and 2 hours back.  That implies roadworthyness.    But, was it on this hyw trip that he was only getting 25mpg?  That's ultra low.  

In reply to John Welsh :

He left it running for the 30-45 minutes  in my driveway, perhaps that skewed the MPG? The Auction says around $3k but that does not include the fees ect.. ect..I am guessing maybe they have somewhere between $5-6K in it or less? However there is less then 1500 miles since owning it in May, but he said that he owns another car and was just in to sell this. I think I am going to throw him a offer tomorrow see what he says.I also noticed the Master warning light– This comes on when there is an LED headlamp malfunction, so that will probably be another issue to look into. I didn't check the lights, but the pictures shows they are fine

Does this car have the new style smart Cruise control?  Sonar detection of the car in front of you slowing down?  If so, with the bumper having been off, make sure the cruise control works?  

Headlamps are likely not cheap for these.  Check that hi/low/daytime running settings all working.  

I total cars for a living. There's a reason they get totaled. Buying an R-title car means you are blindly ignoring that fact.

All of the companies I have worked for in my career will insure an R-title car. But, you pay the same rate as one with a clean title. And then, should it get wiped out again, you only get maybe 75% of what a clean title car brings. So it is costing you more to own that R-title vehicle than a normal one.

Most banks will not finance an R-title vehicle because they don't want to deal with it should it have to be repo'd. They know how hard they are to sell, particularly at auction.

Buy it wrecked and fix it yourself? Okay, maybe then, if your labor will be 'free' it may make sense financially, but only if you plan to keep it forever or turn it into a race car.

 My 2007 Frontier won't pass Inspection in a year or two due to rust underneath and I really like the new Ridgeline body style.  Be damned if I'm going to take a mortgage to own a truck.  I've been looking at Rebuilt Titled ones, there's a guy on ebay that sells only repaired & retitled vehicles.  I've only seen ONE that I would consider, hit in the back and all the replacement parts are included.

I've asked a few sellers if they had photos of the damage, none answered.  Pass

I'd pass. 

In the brief time you checked out the vehicle you e found several issues that need to be addressed (windshield, washer, warning light). You also noticed fuel economy seemed low, although that could be driving style, idling, etc. 

I'd be concerned about how many more issues you'll find and if you'll be chasing minor, but annoying repairs for as long as you have the vehicle.