pointofdeparture
pointofdeparture UltimaDork
4/11/24 4:05 p.m.

I've been shopping for both a new daily and a new fun car for a few months now. I sold my Miata on to a GRM'er and I need something else to drive before I can sell my 850R, so I have now been thrown back into the gauntlet of Craigslist, FB marketplace, OfferUp, etc.

Despite having found stuff that I'm interested in on multiple occasions, I'm still empty handed. In some cases it's just bad timing (someone else beat me to it, etc). But I also find that it doesn't take a whole lot to make my Spidey sense tingle these days. Often times, through a combination of the ad itself and interactions with the seller, I will broadly pick up what I can just broadly describe as a "bad vibe" or a gut feeling that tells me something is weird, and I will decline to pursue anything further before even going to look at stuff. Like anything else sometimes there are genuine red flags, but I'm sure a lot of you would accuse me of overthinking things in many cases.

I've probably lost out on the better part of a dozen purchases because of this instinct. This is a relatively recent thing. I used to feel comfortable getting a stack of cash and going to look at pretty much anything (even when I probably should have seen some red flags!) but now I have a hard time mustering up the energy to do it unless the seller is really obviously someone who has their E36 M3 together and says all the right things.

It used to feel like you could kind of trust people in general more than you can now. In the past 10 years, I've had some stuff happen that has really shaken my faith in people. I got held up at gunpoint outside my workshop in Milwaukee while picking up some stuff for a track day at Road America. I sold a $500 Saab 900 to a guy who burned up the clutch then called me and threatened to kill me before abandoning the car in the middle of the road in the suburbs, costing me all of the money that I had made in tow and impound fees (big lesson to get a bill of sale). A couple years later, I sold a truck to a guy who seemed like a nice upstanding dude, who then used it to commit a robbery and abandoned it after a hit-and-run, which I discovered when the police came knocking (thank god for the bill of sale lesson on that one).

That's not even getting into the modern political situation. Without floundering I just want to state that it's yet another divider. Someone made a joke post on the Enablers Unanimous Facebook group yesterday that led to me making a pretty benign and jokey observation in return, to nobody in particular. This led to random people not even in the group jumping in to take me to task, they started tagging their buddies, and soon I'm getting random people I've never seen or heard of before sending me DMs to argue about politics. That was the final straw for the Book of Faces for me, which I had already dramatically decreased my usage of, but it was just like...what the hell? Is this really what people spend their free time doing these days? I can't even casually say something in a group of GRM dorks without it escalating into this big stupid thing!

I don't even really know where I'm going with this other than to say that I used to love buying and selling and wheeling and dealing and that feeling is just totally gone now. It's harder than ever to go into a potential transaction with a sense of "good faith" or even fundamental trust. Actual bona-fide scams are everywhere now but even a lot of the people that aren't full-on scammers aren't exactly on the up-and-up either. And even if someone is legit the modern political SNAFU has created another layer of frustration where some folks can't even put their opinions aside for a second to do a good old fashioned sale of goods over a handshake. Maybe I was just naive back in the day but it used to feel like there was a certain level of decorum or "having it together" you could count on when responding to a classified ad or going to look at something. Now I just feel like I have to have my guard up 100% right out of the gate and it makes every potential transaction feel like this excruciating process. Totally sucks the joy out of everything. And, of course, here I am going on five months looking for new vehicles because stuff just hasn't come together yet in a way I'm comfortable with, so I'm kind of punishing myself over my own anxieties at the end of the day.

Am I the only one that has been grappling with all this? At the end of the day this is probably just a big "the old days" lament through rose colored glasses, except "the old days" feel pretty damn recent, which feels weird.

TR7
TR7 Reader
4/11/24 4:18 p.m.

Your not the only one, I feel you. Don't have an answer, but I'll share the lament. 

calteg
calteg SuperDork
4/11/24 4:18 p.m.

I'm going through this currently trying to sell a $100 truck part. 

Guy emails me every 48 hours about it, but the first few times his verbage was so strange I thought he was a bot (he asked for my "coordinates"). 

He's adamant that I communicate through text and keeps providing his phone number. So much so that I've absolutely refused to communicate using anything but email. He just no showed to our 2nd meetup about an hour ago and at this point I'm just gonna throw the part in the trash and move on with my life.

Motojunky
Motojunky New Reader
4/11/24 4:21 p.m.

I have felt similar lately - if it doesn't feel right, I just move on. I've met great sellers/buyers, terrible sellers/buyers, and everything in between. That said, for the most part when I'm actually face to face with a buyer/seller, the experience is pleasant & friendly.

Your politics point is interesting. If a buyer/seller makes a political comment in person that doesn't align with my thinking, I just brush it off and move on. I don't have to agree with your politics to have a pleasant transaction with you. If politics started while we're still communicating electronically, I'd probably just exit the conversation. I can't think of any significant examples off of the top of my head where I was uncomfortable because of politics in a car buying/selling situation. Perhaps you give too much weight to politics in that setting? Why would it matter? 

And yes, always get a bill of sale. I don't know if it would hold up legally, but I always insist on a date and time with the signature. 

Mr_Asa
Mr_Asa MegaDork
4/11/24 4:24 p.m.

Myself, I've never liked buying and selling.  I get what you are saying though. 

I think people in general are under a lot more stress than they used to be 

pointofdeparture
pointofdeparture UltimaDork
4/11/24 4:31 p.m.
Motojunky said:

Your politics point is interesting. If a buyer/seller makes a political comment in person that doesn't align with my thinking, I just brush it off and move on. I don't have to agree with your politics to have a pleasant transaction with you. If politics started while we're still communicating electronically, I'd probably just exit the conversation. I can't think of any significant examples off of the top of my head where I was uncomfortable because of politics in a car buying/selling situation. Perhaps you give too much weight to politics in that setting? Why would it matter?

As I mentioned, I started getting dogpiled about politics by random people on the internet because of something silly I said in a GRM-adjacent car classified group. I also live in San Francisco which is enough for some people to make all kinds of judgments about me based on a bunch of ridiculous assumptions.

It's yet another contributor to feeling like everything about this just sucks now. I also don't feel like I have to agree with your politics to have a pleasant transaction with you, but experience has told me that's not a safe mutual assumption anymore.

Duke
Duke MegaDork
4/11/24 4:33 p.m.

We went through a period very much like this in the late '70s.  Everybody pissed off, everything expensive, everybody yelling, everybody tearing E36 M3 up for no reason, everybody hating, everybody stressed, everybody ripping everybody off.  It's one of the reasons I hate the '70s.

Even the entire planet can't keep that level of anger up forever.

It doesn't ever go away, but it will die down to a reasonable level again, eventually.

It will get better.

 

Peabody
Peabody MegaDork
4/11/24 4:34 p.m.
pointofdeparture said:

At the end of the day this is probably just a big "the old days" lament through rose colored glasses, except "the old days" feel pretty damn recent, which feels weird.

That's how it works.

I recall complaining about this 20 years ago when I said, a deal used to be a deal. Now you make a deal with somebody, show up to buy it, and it's already been sold to someone else. And nobody seems to think there's anything wrong with that.

hunter47
hunter47 Reader
4/11/24 4:36 p.m.

Yeah I've actually given up on selling anything for cash nowadays. Too much hassle. 

Last thing I sold was a mountain bike tire and tire insert - $20 and a six pack. We scheduled for Sunday because I was out of town on Saturday, told him I cut my trip short so was available on Saturday, he showed up with $20 and a six pack in 20 minutes. I just took the beer, I was just impressed he showed up with what I asked for in the first place. 

Beer Baron 🍺
Beer Baron 🍺 MegaDork
4/11/24 4:53 p.m.

My experience is to mostly avoid buying or selling anything "cheap"*. Cheap items bring out cheapskates who are a PITA to deal with. If it costs more, it brings out people who have their E36 M3 together. Selling a $5,000 car is less headache than a $500 car.

*"Cheap" is relative for the item. $500 for a car is "cheap", but not for something like furniture.

93gsxturbo
93gsxturbo UltraDork
4/11/24 5:13 p.m.

"Is this still available?"

pointofdeparture
pointofdeparture UltimaDork
4/11/24 5:24 p.m.

In reply to Duke :

I think that's part of it too. This frustration is just a microcosm of how stressful every damn thing in the world seems to be right now.

I really just need to push through this and get a fun car in the stable again so I can at least disconnect, throw my phone in the ocean and go enjoy the great coastal driving around here.

porschenut
porschenut Dork
4/11/24 5:54 p.m.

Some people seem to have lost any ethical emotions.  We have to trust our read on this but there are no laws requiring us to sell something posted.  As bad as it is I prefer FBM now, I can look at a person's stuff for sale, general FB stuff and sometimes location.  And the best part, if I get a bad feeling just block them.  For the last few years I never meet at my house for a big ticket item, car sales are done in the local PD parking lot and then go to a tag agency.  I take a picture of the signed title.  Never had any of this stuff you describe happen, hope it never does.  

j_tso
j_tso Dork
4/11/24 6:47 p.m.

In reply to 93gsxturbo :

sometimes only: "100?"

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