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HunterBenz
HunterBenz Reader
12/24/15 9:36 p.m.

I'll have to check out the local community college for that. If I had any time, I'd take the class myself just to get access to the toys.

Glad to see my build is influencing dreams already. Haha.

My Toploader is a true 4-speed. It is the slightly less desirable wider ratio trans and it came out of a '69 Mustang or Cougar. I checked on that as soon as I could read the numbers on the trans.

Finally finished up some work on the front sub frame to make the M119 fit. Some of you will notice my welding could use work to be pretty. In perfect conditions my welds look pretty good. When I am wedged in a small space welding inside a much smaller space, apparently I am not too good haha.

Some of you will also notice there is not a lot of material left in certain areas of the sub frame. I put quite a bit of effort into a structure inside the sub frame frame made from 1 inch tubing. The tubing braces the edges of the sub frame where the lower a-arm connects diagonally to keep it solid there. Then the tubing goes around on the inside of the sub frame.

Here is the inside structure with one plate in front of it.

Starting subframe modifications.

Here it is boxed in.

Sub frame sealed up.

A view from the top of it temp painted. Here you can see why I put the internal structural stuff in there.

Top view.

Next up is engine mounts. Before the car is driven, I am going to put in another length of tubing. I need a bender to make the piece so it fits nicely up under the engine.

I'm fairly certain the subframe is strong enough to hold up an engine with no issues at all. It could probably be driven around just fine, but the type of driving I plan on doing I'd feel safer with another bar in there.

Like I said up top, it isn't the prettiest, but it is good enough for my first attempt at getting the engine in the car.

LanEvo
LanEvo Reader
12/24/15 11:36 p.m.

Talk about an oddball build! How could you not love this?

When it's done, it would make an excellent vintage rally car. I'd love to see it running the Carrera Panamericana or Targa Newfoundland.

yupididit
yupididit HalfDork
12/25/15 12:37 a.m.

Hey, if you figure out getting the m119 and a manual trans to work, then I want to be next. I've always lusted for an m119 swap into something. But, I like to wait for an innovator to do all the leg work then pick his brain lol.

HunterBenz
HunterBenz Reader
1/3/16 10:16 p.m.

Well today was my first solid day off with time in the garage in a while. After 2 seconds of tripping over crap to get to what I wanted, I decided it was time for a serious garage cleaning. Did a solid day cleaning and rearranging. I love a clean garage.

Clean garage for once.

I wish this is what it looked like with everything put away. My roller items are outside and get moved outside when I do work. The rolling items are the motor, a toolbox, my welding cart, and a work cart. I promise the next update will be car related.

HunterBenz
HunterBenz New Reader
1/3/16 10:21 p.m.
yupididit wrote: Hey, if you figure out getting the m119 and a manual trans to work, then I want to be next. I've always lusted for an m119 swap into something. But, I like to wait for an innovator to do all the leg work then pick his brain lol.

I'm happy to share what I do. It won't be for everyone. I think my flywheel and clutch set up will be on the almost too light side and it will be a 4-speed trans to start. But I am really trying to do as much as possible myself. The great news is over the next year or so the wife said we can save to try and get me a Mill... That will seriously enhance the work I can do myself. I'm hoping to have the car driving before then, but for M119 version 2.0 (as far as this car goes). I hope to have that in full swing.

RossD
RossD UltimaDork
1/4/16 7:47 a.m.

What a great car! What a great build! What a great selection of parts!

I love all of it. Please keep plugging away at this. I need to see some pictures of this car getting the gears slammed, white smoke rolling off the tires and all that.

maciekb2002
maciekb2002
1/21/16 8:11 p.m.

Looking good !!! I'm not by myself I guess .

maciekb2002
maciekb2002 New Reader
1/21/16 8:32 p.m.

I think I know what direction you are following [URL=http://s155.photobucket.com/user/maciekb2002/media/amg%20redpig/red-pig-mercedes-1971-w109-300sel-6.9-amg_3_zpsrk9zat0c.jpg.html][/URL]

Dusterbd13
Dusterbd13 UberDork
1/21/16 9:49 p.m.
maciekb2002 wrote: I think I know what direction you are following [URL=http://s155.photobucket.com/user/maciekb2002/media/amg%20redpig/red-pig-mercedes-1971-w109-300sel-6.9-amg_3_zpsrk9zat0c.jpg.html][/URL]

I need a minute.

HunterBenz
HunterBenz New Reader
1/22/16 9:01 a.m.

I'll admit the original Rote Sau and it's yellow counterpart are the inspiration for the driving light setup. However, I don't have plans of trying to copy the Waxenberger W109 flares or modified gas filler cap right now. Well, maybe the filler cap.

I have some plans of trying a few fiberglass panels, but I have a lot of stuff to do before I got messing with that.

My real inspiration for this is just a W108 that has some 'minor' tweaks to make it my own. I just love the W108 body style.

Unfortunately, I've been working so much I have not been able to put many hours into it in the last month or so. The up side is there will be more money to throw at it with the nice OT checks, assuming the wife ups my allowance with the higher income.

Acme Lab Rat
Acme Lab Rat Reader
1/22/16 11:05 a.m.
maciekb2002 wrote: I think I know what direction you are following

I'll be in my bunk.

maciekb2002
maciekb2002 New Reader
1/23/16 7:33 a.m.

In reply to HunterBenz:

We all need to work . And most of the guys that try to build something original like you are busy people , with a little ambitions in their lives . It looks like I need to open next thread for w108 build . BTW thanks for subframe pics I have the same engine for my w108, now in progress machining adapter plate to getrag 6spd

HunterBenz
HunterBenz New Reader
1/24/16 7:52 a.m.

Right on! I'm jelous of your getrag 6 speed, my wife would probably execute me in my sleep if I said I wanted to drop the green for what those cost. Post up a build thread, I'd love to see it.

The subframe was actually quite sturdy even when cutting bits out to get where it needed to be. It is certainly a lot of material to cut away though.

I am thinking of Frankenstein-ing a bell housing. But I need to get the clutch and flywheel sorted first to get the spacing correct.

Do you have plans for a flywheel yet? I'm looking into a blank button flywheel and having it drilled to M119 pattern. I don't have access to the tooling to do it right, I have to farm that stuff out.

84FSP
84FSP HalfDork
1/24/16 8:14 a.m.

Anyone note that the Mercedes is called Red Pig?

HunterBenz
HunterBenz Reader
1/27/16 12:26 a.m.

I called it Rote Sau, sameish thing.

Well, I finally got to put some work into car stuff today. I cleaned up the Saginaw so I can sell it to fund more stuff.

Saginaw cleaned up.

Then I did a little body work. Two things to remember when you look at my pictures here. 1: I suck at bodywork. 2: probably the reason for "1," I loathe bodywork.

I did not take a before but here is the other side. It is identical with the exception that my driver's side fender had a 3 inch dent in it.

Origional.

Here is a couple during shots: filling in the holes, welding in the side marker hole, and pulling the dent.

Dent and filled hole.

Filling holes.

This is not finished, finished. Just a temp coating of primer to keep it from rusting.

Modified.

I also ordered parts today. Always fun, but now I have to wait for them to come in. First world problems I guess. Haha

maciekb2002
maciekb2002 New Reader
1/27/16 9:51 p.m.

Looking great man . I was wondering what is the plan with m119 to tranny ? Got any adapter plates? Email me at maciekb2002@yahoo.com . I'm almost done with m119 flywheel set up and adaplet plate to bmw getrag 6 speed . I need to get some info from you.

HunterBenz
HunterBenz New Reader
1/28/16 12:52 a.m.

E-mail sent. My clutch and flywheel are on the way. So I hope I get that sorted so I can work on the bellhousing soon.

Rwd4evr
Rwd4evr None
2/12/16 1:33 p.m.

I love this build!!! I'm planning a very similar build with a w111, 1963 220b fintail sedan(Sophia) with a m119 and a t-5 trans.they(w108 and w111)are almost identical mechanically. Sorry if I'm telling you stuff you already know. I have done a massive amount of reading and research on the m119 and know a ton about them even though I don't own one yet. There are nine different versions in 2 displacements, not even counting the amg modified monsters. My friend has a 92 500sl and that thing hauls ass! And it weighs 4500 pounds!!! If you need any info on your motor or these cars please ask, I own four swing axle cars and he has two, and three r107/c107. Shame were on opposite coasts because We have mega parts. I have a few questions. 1. Do you have any exhaust interference on the drivers side manifold? That is what had me looking at m116 motors until I found this build. I didn't think it would fit after looking at his SL. 2.what chassis did the motor come out of? They came in r129, w140,w124,w210. You may want to move breakable/throwable objects away before you read this one if your prone to freaking out,after all the fab work you did on that crossmember. 3. Did you know that there are two oil pan versions for the m119? A front sump that is almost identical to the m117 pan that came in the car and a mid sump(that I'm assuming you have)?

Rwd4evr
Rwd4evr New Reader
2/12/16 1:40 p.m.

4.are the motor mount holes in fact in the same place and angle as the m117? I'm told they are but don't know for sure. 5.what is your bellhousing/flywheel plan? I'm planning a t-5 trans swap from a later 95^ mustang, it has a 5/8 longer input shaft that will help with an adapter plate. If you need info for your swap there is a massive thread about it on Peachparts under non MB trans to MB engine. I'll be checking in on this a lot!! Good luck!!

HunterBenz
HunterBenz Reader
2/12/16 3:28 p.m.

In reply to Rwd4evr:

First of all, thank you, it is nice to hear people like my project. I'd love to have a heckfloose. Truth is, I'd love to have just about any Mercedes from 1974 and before (CA smog issues and I didn't like too many after the 70's). I'd love to have a second chance at owning a 2.3-16.

Anyway,my answers...

  1. Short answer is no, no clearance issues with the manifold. I have not tried to put a pipe on past the manifold as I have not made mounts for the motor, yet. My mounts are going to be solid. My plans are different than many with thoughts of this swap as it will be a lot more race than road car than most drivers are comfortable with. My plan with this car has always been, there is no "doesn't fit." I'll make it fit, metal can be cut and welded.

  2. Mine is from a mid model year W140. It is the 5.0 from the S500 version.

  3. Yes, I did know. I know quite a bit about a lot of Mercedes from the 1990's and earlier from my time as a MB mechanic. I do believe that the front sump M119 oil pan is still bigger and slightly off center to the driver's side, but that part I'm not sure on. This engine was purchased because I just happened upon it in a junkyard and it only cost me 350. The other clearance issue is going to be side to side engine movement, the clearance from the front "frame" rails to the manifold is very close.

  4. Just eyeballing it with my somewhat calibrated eyeballs, it is dang close if not the same. I don't have any M117 engine mounts to play with, so I don't know if they will bolt up. The M119 engine mounts are too short to line up with the stock rubber part of the M117 engine mount (by about an inch).

  5. My plans with the transmission is an adaptor, now that I found a reasonably priced Toploader bell housing. Clutch and flywheel is a Quartermaster button flywheel with their V-Drive twin plate clutch (see below). Not for everyone, but that is about par for everything else on this board, that is why I like it here. This place is like an asylum for people with our kind of mental issues.

All in all, this project is an, I'm going to do it all (within a slightly insane person's reasoning) that I can given my skills and tool availability... That is a flat out lie, I'm also tackling some things I lack the tools and/or skills to do. Such is learning. Today, I am on a mission to find a machine shop to do one of the very few things I am outsourcing, drilling my flywheel to fit my crank.

A package came in and it is pretty, all 12 punds of it. The clutch AND flywheel are 12 pounds.

Clutch and flywheel.

Rwd4evr
Rwd4evr New Reader
2/12/16 4:24 p.m.

That is a nice clutch. Only about 4 times the price of the engine right?! Wasn't the car m117 powered originally? I'm gonna go pretty much race car with mine too. I have a nice 63 220Sb that I'm building with a m110 DOHC for my street car. My 64 220b has a wrecked interior and floors so I'm gonna go nuts with that one. I have a 73 280sel 4.5 that is donation it's big vented front and disc rear plus motor mount arms. I'm fine with cutting and/or smashing a little frame rail but I'd rather not cut near the suspension mount or steering box. If love to know if a m119 will fit with stock arms and the other pan. My manual plan revolves around the 722.6 removable auto bellhousing with an adapter plate mounted to it.

93EXCivic
93EXCivic MegaDork
2/12/16 4:44 p.m.

This and the other Benz build thread are not helping my Benz lust.

I want an old Benz something fierce...

HunterBenz
HunterBenz New Reader
2/12/16 5:21 p.m.

The clutch and flywheel was actually very reasonable. 540 for the set.

What did the 722.6 trans come in? I knew I had seen an M119 with a two piece trans case before. I'd really rather source one of those than make a bell housing to motor adapter. Thanks

I'll go hang the engine in it's hole and take some pictures for you.

Rwd4evr
Rwd4evr New Reader
2/12/16 6:56 p.m.

Now that I think about it, it could be 722.5 but either way I know they were in w140 500SEL. I'll look through that other thread on Peachparts when I get a min. I may be picking up a sl500 tomorrow dirt cheap, splitting with my buddy for parts for his Sl. Oh yeah there are different manifolds for all four cars too. So maybe mixing and matching would make fitment better. Do you think it's gonna end up in stock location?

HunterBenz
HunterBenz Reader
2/12/16 7:01 p.m.

OK, pictures for you guys for fitment stuff. Disclaimer: this is what I did. I am damn sure it ain't the best way. I don't know if it will work yet. Please don't cut your car to my numbers and blame me when it doesn't work for you. This is the internet, lots of people post stupid stuff.

This is a mostly pretty dang close estimate of where the motor will be. Keep in mind, this is attempt one, eventually I am going to change things around when I go to phase 2 of my project. I am still in early phase 1 and phase 1 is get the car running with an M119 inside the engine bay with a manual trans behind it.

Front clearance...

Needs to move back.

Rear clearance, this looks like a ton, it is. I'm not sure why there is so much room here. The engine sits about center line with the front imaginary axle line. I do want to move the engine back, but can't yet. Someday when I go after making a front tubular sub frame and change to a rack and pinion, I will have the engine much farther back. But for now...

Waaaay back.

Side clearance, here is the other reason why the engine has to sit there. Unless the structural rails are reshaped, the engine can't wait back much more. Eventually the steering box will get in the way too. Also, this is the reason phase 1 is getting solid engine mounts. I was going to do rubber, but, while I like cool car noises, the engine modifying the rail by repeatedly bashing it is not what I want to happen...

Clearnace... Or lack of.

Here is some underside pictures to help with a visual of clearances. There is actually quite a bit of room at this stage. Moving back, however, will cluster f everything into everything wanting to be in the same spot at once...

Mounts not even close.

From the underside.

Here are some measurements as to what the subframe cutting looks like...

In these, the tape measure is against the arm holding the front sub frame, uhh, I'll call them "cute baby leaf springs" for now.

Driver's side...

Boring measurements.

Passenger side...

Booooring.

Total amount removed...

Really, more?

Middle(ish) of rear...

Last one... Finally.

I was/am thinking phase 3, or possibly 76, might include turbos, so in preparation I am not wanting stupid stuff like brake master cylinders or boosters iny engine bay. I mean, it is an "engine" bay after all. Reverse mount swing arm pedal set from a local business. You may have heard of them...

Anti-go fast parts.

Hope this stuff helps.

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