1979 Alfa Romeo Alfetta GTV (Cheap - cough, hack) Project

greggearhead said:

 

Rial Cobra wheels in 4x108 bolt pattern, to be refinished by Kevin Blanchard at Blanchards polishing and redrilled to 4x98 by my buddy Tracy at Zentrac Precision. Period perfect!!

 

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Those are cool wheels, but I think the stock wheels are even cooler and look better. 

The stock wheels are Ronal 14x6 - which aren't bad.  I'm a dealer for Maxilite, so can get some brand new 15x7 versions of them!!  Getting them here is taking a bit, and these are much more rare and funky, plus when they are double drilled they will fit almost all Alfas!   I've got some Revolutions I am having redrilled to use as track wheels.  Amazing that even with modern Fiat 500's that 4x98 bolt pattern isn't super common.  At least if you don't want some boring wheels...  

Well, the new starter I ordered through Oreilly, while being priced attractively, was a 3 bolt version, compared to my 2 bolt. There is one old time rebuilder left in town, and I stopped by with the alternator and the starter. I figured, since the alternator is out, I might as well have it done, too. 

The guy looked at it and laughed, he had a Bosch exactly like it on the bench he was rebuilding - apparently from an MG! At least they will both be 100% when it goes back together.

There is a bit of a problem with the starter cracking the bellhousing on the earlier 2L cars with tranny at the front. I don't know if its an Alfetta issue, but the solution is to get a gear reduction starter rather than the original style. 

coexist said:

There is a bit of a problem with the starter cracking the bellhousing on the earlier 2L cars with tranny at the front. I don't know if its an Alfetta issue, but the solution is to get a gear reduction starter rather than the original style. 

The real fix to that problem is to get the proper bolt with the right shoulder so that it locates the starter correctly.  I had that failure once- thankfully only breaking the starter. Once the proper specialty bolt was in place, it's never been a problem.

The gear reduction starter only "fixes" the issue because it's lighter.  But the location problem still exists.

I've heard of this - but wasn't thinking about it.  I'll be sure to use the correct bolts when reinstalling!  

Thanks guys

OK, some slow progress.  Finished getting the front control are and radius rod poly bushings installed, soft-installed the exhaust manifolds and downpipe to start mocking up the exhaust.  I'm also going to try and get some wheel studs that will work today so I can get the front hubs, brakes and calipers all mounted up this week.  Waiting on rear wheel bearings to come in.  

I decided to remove the air pump, since I CAN'T CHANGE THE OIL FILTER ON THE SPICA PUMP WHEN ITS THERE.  Such a stupid layout.  And, since you can't remove the air pump with the bracket in place, I cut the bracket.  Sigh.  

Removed all the front coolant hoses, so need to order those as well!  

Alright - it's been a long time, but I'm trying to get it ready for next month. 

The rear axle fought me with the hubs not coming out. I had a buddy at a machine shop basically make a jig to hold it in a press and push the hubs out, then the wheel bearings. They press the bearings and hubs back in. 

I replaced the rear brake hose and reinstalled the axle with poly bushings on the Watts linkage and sway bar links, and used AFCO adjustable racing shocks and some (maybe Shankle) red racing springs. 

Welding in the front sway reinforcement plates now, then to assemble the front suspension and get the custom brake setup fitted.

Here's some pics.  

The front plates were made very poorly.  Like I could have (and should have) made them myself.  

The holes didn't line up for the sway bar.
The bends didn't match the body.
The shape didn't fit in the area it was supposed to.  

Anyway, I enlarged the bolt holes, then drilled some additional holes for plug welds.  Man, Alfa sheetmetal welds poorly for me - kind of like stainless steel where it blows through really easily, but I'm not a professional welder by and stretch.  

I took the a-arms to my shop neighbor this week and got the old ball joints out and the new ones pressed in, so that's the next step.  

Also, a photo of the Alfetta sway bar next to the Milano one.  

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I swear, everything on this car is one step forward, and two steps back.  I was prepping the GTV6 torsion bars for installation, but noticed the rear crossmember that holds them had a little bit of play.  It shouldn't have any - bolts were tight.  

The holes through the body had ovaled out quite a bit.  So I stripped to bare metal, welded a grounding stud on, then welded the spacer washers so that the bolts locating the crossmember would be located positively.  But of course it put me back most of a day.  However, at least they will be on there forever for whoever owns this next.  

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greggearhead said:

Correct me if I'm wrong but is this rear suspension basically a solid rear axle with a hard mounted diff and CV's instead of axle shafts? I've never seen anything like that before.

Yeah, that looks like exactly what it is.

50% better performance for 3x the price! :)

Yes, De Dion - it's pretty interesting and supposed to be the best type of a live axle (though not live) you can do.  

The quirky technical aspects really drew me into this model. 

In reply to BA5 :

DeDion rear suspension has been around since 1900. It has the geometric benefit of a live axle with most of the unsprung weight benefit of an independent system. Common on front engine grand prix cars from 1930s until Maserati stopped using the 250F in 1960. Lotus used it in some models in the 1950s. Caterham did as well until a few years ago. Dodge used it on a small run of delivery vans 1949 til 1953, there is one on this forum cooter(?) has it.

TurnerX19 said:

In reply to BA5 :

DeDion rear suspension has been around since 1900. It has the geometric benefit of a live axle with most of the unsprung weight benefit of an independent system. Common on front engine grand prix cars from 1930s until Maserati stopped using the 250F in 1960. Lotus used it in some models in the 1950s. Caterham did as well until a few years ago. Dodge used it on a small run of delivery vans 1949 til 1953, there is one on this forum cooter(?) has it.

And my wife's smartcar.

DeDion also lets you run negative camber on the 'live' axle. While it can be done on regular internal shaft stick axles, you can't go too far before you need to start crowning the splines and reducing their torque capacity. Usually a stick can give 1-3 degrees camber before clearance is eaten up and it has a heart attack- theoretically the DeDion could handle as much camber as the CV joints can take.

greggearhead said:

Alfa parts keep showing up...

 

Rial Cobra wheels in 4x108 bolt pattern, to be refinished by Kevin Blanchard at Blanchards polishing and redrilled to 4x98 by my buddy Tracy at Zentrac Precision. Period perfect!!

 

[URL=http://s61.photobucket.com/user/greggearhead/media/Alfetta%20GTV/s-l1600_zpsk4xuptxh.jpg.html][/URL]

 

Also, I got a pair of 11.1mm Centerline performance camshafts. I will be using one of these on the intake, and an Alquati A35 10.35mm camshaft on the exhaust.

 

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I also ordered the silicone reducer angle couplers to make my custom SPICA airbox... We'll see if it works.  ......

New cams= new cups for the springs.. then you will have to adjust all the valves

 Check out the Alfa Romeo bb for advice.. old cups and new cams..easy way to kill each of them...fast

I.

mblommel said:

greggearhead said:

 

Rial Cobra wheels in 4x108 bolt pattern, to be refinished by Kevin Blanchard at Blanchards polishing and redrilled to 4x98 by my buddy Tracy at Zentrac Precision. Period perfect!!

 

[URL=http://s61.photobucket.com/user/greggearhead/media/Alfetta%20GTV/s-l1600_zpsk4xuptxh.jpg.html][/URL]

 

Those are cool wheels, but I think the stock wheels are even cooler and look better. 

Safer way than re drilling your rims, use 25 mm aluiumn plate adapters,  they fit over 4x98 mm pattern of the car. And you can fit 4x108 onto the adpaters, bonus.. A wider tract

Safer?  I disagree.  I have and will continue to use bolt-on adapters, but safer than no adapters?  I wouldn't say that.  

Additionally, with adapters that are strong enough, they have to be around 13mm or wider - which means these wheels would poke way outside the fenders.  Makes it a no-go.  

Alfaromeoguy said:

New cams= new cups for the springs.. then you will have to adjust all the valves

 Check out the Alfa Romeo bb for advice.. old cups and new cams..easy way to kill each of them...fast

 

I am familiar - the shop across the street has worked on more Alfas than I can count, and the owner has been doing it since 1978.  I already talked to him about it.  Thanks!

OK, FINALLY got the front suspension together.  I am praying I got the ride height on the torsion bars in front correct.  Serious pain in the butt to do it on jack stands.  I have much more respect for car builders that make torsion bars with adjustments built in.  Would have saved me a day of time, maybe more.   Still the swaybar (Milano version = larger) to reconnect and a couple bolts to torque, but it's together.  

Anyway, with the upper control arm disconnected, sway bar disconnected and just control arm bolts and the torsion bar holding the control arm in positiont, he measurement from the control arm tip to the top of the fender opening was 27.5" stock.  With the stiffer GTV6 bars, It now measures a touch over 26".  Rule of thumb seems to be that an inch shorter measurement = inch lowering, but with the stiffer bars, I assume that's a little less.  However, when I tried for a reading of 25.5", the bolts for the control arm were blocked by the control arm.  I would totally grind some clearance on them, but I figured we will see where it sits, first.  

I would have started fabbing up the exhaust yesterday, but I didn't have any flanges!  I have more than enough 2.25" mandrel bends, two different resonators, two different turbo mufflers, gaskets, hangers, etc.  However, I only have 2" and 2.5" flanges.  Looks like I might visit an exhaust shop and buy local tomorrow so I can get some more done this week.  

I was able to mock up the Volvo 240 turbo Girling 4 piston brake calipers.  They fit perfectly with just one M12 shim between them and the spindle.  Crazy.  Now to make a couple hard lines from the caliper to a tee and fit the hose to the tee.  And then 100 other things.  

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Yeah, Alfa's are hard to weld on becuase every surface under the car is contaminated with either: Engine Oil, Transmission Fluid, Brake Fluid or coolant due to Alfa's dependable gaskets.....

Alfa progress - no pics because I left the camera at work.

I welded up about 80% of the exhaust - the muffler shop here in town I bought 4 flanges from (because I didn't realize all the ones I had at home were 2.5" when I needed 2.25") sold me two 2.25" and two 2.5". In addition to charging me WAY too much, so I'll be returning those 2.5" ones in the morning. If I had them, I could have finished the exhaust. I get the mail order 2.25" flanges tomorrow morning.

Fitting the Dynomax Super Turbo muffler in the rear space between the battery box and the spare tire well will be difficult at best. We'll see how that goes.  I might even have to trim the inlet and outlet pipes to fit a tight bend that close.  

The Volvo 240 brake calipers have two M10 inlets, so I used two pre made 6" brake hardlines and looped them into a tee to mate with the stock single Alfa (new) brake hose. Lots of loose ends to tie up, but I'm crossing my fingers the 1000 things I changed all work together...

Pics of the 80% complete exhaust and brake lines/hose setup for front caliper.  

I used a 3 bolt flange at the end of the downpipe.  I started with a flex joint after that - it's a longitudinal 4 cyl, so shouldn't rock much, but I'd rather flex than break.  

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