Group 44 TR7 V8 pics anyone

Hi

Can anyone help with some pictures of the group 44 TR7 V8's?

It must be one of the best looking TR7's ever put together.

I noticed that there was a article done in the Classic Motorsport mag, But i dont think they will send back copys to the UK.

Any good HiRes pictures really appreciated.

Cheers Steve

Some pics that I took from the TR8's first outing at Watkins Glen. I hope they help

http://www.flickr.com/photos/14687830@N02/

Scott

Cheers for posting the Pics Scott, What a car ;-)

Steve

Keep em coming lads, Surly you guys over in the US must have more pics PLEASE ;-) am i right in thinking there's somone in the US thats producing a replica body kit.

Steve

Hi, I'm in Canada and have been searching for a body kit for a TR7. Check out the picture at www.flickr.com/photos/smenzel/1279370977 The only ones I've found have been from the UK and I haven't like them. There's one guy in the states that I found but the body kit is boring. Has anyone found out if there is any other kits available? I was looking at kits for Mazda Rx7's, some of the measurements are close if you're handy with body work.

http://www.justdrive.ca/mosport/07/slides/IMG_8672.html

Great pictures, but where do i get the body kit?

You can't.

But Peter who owns the Canadian Group 44 car has molds.

A.

Do you have a phone number or email or website or any other info so I can contact him? Tammy

http://www.lanocharacing.com/

Here you go.

Thank you so much. There's a kit at www.morspeedperformance.com . I don't like it compared to this one but it still looks better than original.

Hi, Thank you very much for giving me the info on the kit for my tr7. I must have sent a thousand emails and phone calls trying to find a kit. When I get my car done I'll post a picture. You don't know what motor and tranny's will fit in these cars without too much work, do you? Tammy

Rover V8?

I'm not much good with the TR's.

A.

Obviously Rover V8's fit, but because the rover engine was purchased from BOP (buick, olds, pontiac), the Buick V6 engines drop right in. (as you have guessed, this is the engine I have in my car) with something as simple as an aluminum intake manifold, the engine weighs less than the stock engine, and being a V format, it sits farther back in the chassis.

I have also seen some of them out there with SBC's stuffed in them.

Hi, My mechanic said to stay away from the rover v8's. What year of buick v6 fits? I'm also looking for a conversion for my front wheels to convert to a 5 bolt. Tammy

Typo, Tammy. Rover bought the V8 from Buick, not a V6. The Rover V8 is derived from the old Buick 215 from the 60s, so both the Rover and the Buick versions are more or less drop-in installs.

There's some differences in displacement and casting methods, but not a whole lot else. You'll have to figure out if you want carbs or fuel injection -- and either way, figure out how to fit it under the hood. Obviously, being a 60s engine, the Buick version came carbed, where the newer Rovers are injected. You don't necessarily have to keep it that way, though.

Your mechanic is wrong about the Rover V8. There's nothing particularly wrong with them, they're lightweight, and the factory made all the parts you'd need to install it (that's the engine they used in the TR8).

It's also the engine used in MG V8s, Morgans, TVRs and a ton of other things. It's a good motor.

Why would you want to convert your wheels to a 5-bolt? What are you trying to accomplish?

I mean, if you want it bad enough, you could find a cheap mustang and put the whole drivetrain and suspension in the TR7 shell. But it's a lot easier to follow the factory's path and build your own version of the TR8.

Hi, My mechanic told me the parts were hard to find for the rover. I've purchased a 9" ford rear end for my car as I was told the original rear end wouldn't handle the torque of a larger engine. The ford rear end is 5 bolt and the front is 4 and I'm unable to get tires and rims that match. I've purchased the group 44 kit and will require much larger tires as well. Tammy

Quote: My mechanic said to stay away from the rover v8's.

Did your mechanic give you any reasoning for this statement?

The Buick/Rover aluminum V8 is a wonderful motor with a terrific heritage and many distinct advantages that include its very light weight, outstanding power-to-weight ratio, and availability of off-the-shelf conversion parts.

Compared to a V6, the Rover V8 has that great, smooth V8 rumble. The engine's relatively short stroke really suits a sports car. This engine characteristically produces a LOT of torque, yet also pulls strongly up past 5000 rpm if you want to go there. (The exact characteristics depend on many variables, of course.)

As more mid-90s Range Rovers are being retired, the newer 3.9L and 4.6L versions get easier and cheaper to find than ever before. (The Triumph TR8 used a 3.5L version of the motor. Think about it: 4.6L is 31% more!)

Here's an excellent overview of the early history of the Rover engine: http://www.britishv8.org/Articles/Rover-Autocar-Article.htm

The "British V8" website contains literally hundreds of technical articles on V8 and V6 engine swaps for MGs and Triumphs - over 5000 photos! - and even an active message board specific to serious performance modifications. Here's the home page: http://www.britishv8.org/

Check out the site's "vendor directory" for shops that specialize in engine swaps and other serious performance enhancements.

You won't have to spend much time on the British V8 site to see that the Rover V8 is especially well loved by engine swappers. There's nothing wrong with most of the V6 options, but I wouldn't dismiss the Rover V8 based on a vague warning from one possibly ill-informed mechanic.

More information on the iron 90-degree Buick V6 that derived from the Buick/Rover aluminum V8 can be found here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buick_V6_engine (Don't confuse this engine with the Chevy 90-degree V6, which is entirely different and not well-suited to sports car use.)

If you're thinking about V6 options, you might also want to check out the 60-degree GM V6 engines because they're narrower and thus generally easier to package: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GM_60-Degree_V6_engine

Tammy, it's possible you need a different mechanic, or at least a second opinion.

Parts are not hard to find for the Rover. They made a zillion of 'em over more than 45 years now, and your nearest Rover dealer probably carries a fair number of parts in stock. Besides Rover, there's plenty of places to get Buick/Rover V8 parts.

How much power are you trying to make? Double stock? Triple? More? That makes a big difference in what you need to do.

If you want roughly double the power, somewhere around 200 hp, I'd go straight for the Buick/Rover V8. It'll be the fastest and easiest way there, and everything you need was already made for the TR8. I don't know if the TR7 and TR8 shared a rear end or if the TR8 had a different one, but I suspect the stock TR7 rear will be just fine with that kind of power, and 200 hp or so is going to be plenty of power in a TR7.

If you want a lot more power than that, then you need to go the SBC or SBF route. You'll probably need that Ford 9" rear, along with a different transmission, and a substantially reworked front suspension. I suspect you may not have a whole lot of TR7 left if you go that route. You're basically custom-building a hot rod that looks a bit like a TR7.

Either way, think about brakes. Stock TR7 brakes are nothing to write home about. TR8 brakes are considerably better. Remember you're going to want to turn and stop this thing.

I'm repeating myself, but my advice is to look long and hard at what Triumph did with the TR8, which was a very good little car. It was quick, it could turn, it could stop, and they already made all the parts for you -- you don't even have to figure it out, just call a vendor and tell them what you need.

As for your tires, if it were me I'd stick with the 4-bolts and move up to some lightweight 14" or 15" wheels. Probably 15"... tire selection is generally better.

Parts are EASY to find for the Rover V8 IF you know where to look... Most common service parts can come from NAPA or Carquest. Lots and lots of hot-rod parts are available for these engines!!! In England and Australia (especially) the Rover V8 is as ubiqitous as the Chevy small block is in U.S.A.

Ford 9" rear axle? Your mechanic is apparently unfamiliar with little British sports cars. They don't weigh much (relatively), and their light weight and balance are the key features that make them fun to drive! A Ford 8" axle, for example, would almost certainly be a better choice. As small and light as a TR7/8 is, you just don't need a 9"!

For grins, look at the axles under these example cars: (Ford 5.0L MGB) http://www.britishv8.org/MG/TerrySchulte.htm (Rover 4.9L MGB) http://www.britishv8.org/MG/DonColeman.htm

What years of the rover v8 fit in my car, and what transmission do I use with it? Where I live no one seems to know anything about these cars. I just want to do the right applications, so I'm not spending a fortune. I just don't want the original motor and tranny as no one wants to work on it and parts are hard to find. How do I stick with 4 bolt tires if the rear end is ford and has 5? Sorry if I sound clueless, as I kinda am. I'm tryng to learn though. I appreciate any info. Tammy

Any year Rover V8 will fit, although there may be some tricks getting the induction system to fit under the hood.

Transmission? I'm not sure, but I suspect you can use the one you have. If not, pick up whatever they used for the TR8. One of the TR guys will probably chime in with better info on that front.

Unless you want to make insane power, I'd skip that ford rear end. I think the stock one will be fine.

I don't know where you're at, but have you looked at the clubs section? Most likely there's a club near you with people that will be happy to help you out, and can point you to the guys who know how to work on 'em.

First thing... any mechanic who says he doesn't want to work on it should be regarded with suspicion. You probably don't want him to work on it. Second, there's nothing particularly strange or bad about the stock engine. They do have a nasty habit of blowing head gaskets, and they're not the most powerful things, but it's not like they're made of black magic and gnome gas -- a good mechanic should be able to find his way around it. Actually, if you have a good Saab mechanic, it should look pretty familiar to him. The old Saab 99 engine and later 900 engine were derived from the Triumph engine. Saab just changed a lot of stuff to make 'em better. :grin: Third, Parts should not be hard to find. There's plenty of well known and well respected Triumph parts suppliers out there. Take a look at our Triumph project cars to see some of our favorites.

Finally, you sound like you're kind of new to this whole classic car thing, so I'd encourage you to slow down, keep seeking out good advice, and figure out exactly what you want to do and why. It sounds like you're really close to taking on a massive project rebuilding the whole car that you may not be ready for.

Over on the Grassroots board there's no shortage of folks who could take all the running gear out of a Mustang and stuff it in that Triumph in a weekend, and probably finance the whole thing with change they found in the couch and a half-eaten bag of Fritos for trade -- but they're not new to the car modification thing.

I found a whole tr7 with a 8" ford rear end a 350 chev motor and 5 speed tranny. The 8" ford rear end is 4 bolt which would solve my tire and rim issue..I think. Do you think I should purchase it and have everything switched over to my car? Initially I was looking for a rover v8. There doesn't seem to be any available in canada. Tammy

What Tim said...

With regard to getting the induction under the hood... that's especially tricky if you want to keep Rover fuel injection on the car (it can be done!), but there are also at least eleven or twelve intake manifolds available for the Rover engine. The original Buick 4-barrel carb manifold is especially low profile, and they frequently turn up on eBay (cheaper than a new manifold). I sold my spare just last year. Incidentally, here's a DETAILED article about Rover fuel injection: http://www.britishv8.org/Articles/Rover-14CUX-EFI.htm

Seriously, go to that British V8 website and read every single "How It Was Done" article - not just the ones that say "TR7" - there's a TON of information and tips in those 185 or so articles! http://www.britishv8.org/British-V8-How-It-Was-Done.htm

The most popular tranny to use is the Borg-Warner T5 5-speed from a Camaro. (Aftermarket bellhousings are available if you can't find an old Buick 215 bellhousing conveniently.) The LT77 5-speed from a Rover (or TR8) would also be a good choice, but it's heavier, taller, more complicated, etc. The old Borg-Warner T55 5-speed from a Chevy Monza would be light and simple, but they're getting harder to find. The Toyota Supra 5-speeds work very nicely, although to use one of them you'll need to order one of the aftermarket bellhousings that're made in Australia or New Zealand. There are also Tremec 5-speeds that can be used with bolt-on simplicity. See? Tons of parts options!

Any Ford axle almost certainly needs to be "narrowed" to fit under your car, right? When it's narrowed, the axle shafts will either be removed and modified, or else replaced. The hubs can be plugged and redrilled by a competant axle shop at that time, but the easiest/best thing to do is simply order new axle shafts that are exactly the right width AND have the lug pattern you want. (A four-lug pattern shouldn't cost a penny extra. Google "Moser Engineering" for more info.) Then, you'll need to either substitute different brake drums/rotors (preferably), or else have those re-drilled to match too. Thousands of people have done this before, so don't let it intimidate you... but DO make sure to research carefully before spending money.

Tammy, the Chevy V8 weighes a good 250 pounds too much. It's obscenely too heavy!

You need patience. There are probably Rover engines available in your town. You're not looking hard enough. Take your time. You'll find one if you're patient and look carefully.