My wife wants me to buy this boat.

https://annarbor.craigslist.org/boa/d/lakeland-98-kayot-22-deck-boat/7205841198.html

I have never owned a boat before and know nothing.  Learn me.

This boat is basically ideal for what we want to do.  Pull kids around Pentwater Lake, then park at a beach on Lake Michigan.  Jamie "SWMBO" initally wanted a pontoon boat, then I discovered deck boats and showed her a few.  Jamie is not a large person but requires a lot of room, she is not impresssed by the amount of space on an open bow "speed boat".

It is boat offer season around here, so I may call on this one soon.

A boat is a hole in the water into which you pour money.  as in Break Out Another Thousand.

But still, lots of fun when you get to take it out.

Take a Coast Guard boat safety course.  If  you didn't grow up with boats and boating you have some things to learn.  Get your wife and kids to come with you.  Imagine being on a super highway were anyone can go any direction they want, as fast as they want, and the vehicles are ranging from 55 hp VW's to 700 hp Mustangs, etc.  Add beer.   That is your average popular lake during peak boating times.

Get some comfortable life vests.  Not the giant Mae Wests.  Get they kind that are more stylish.  You are more likely to wear one if looks decent and isn't all orange and bulky.

Used boat buying is all about water intrusion.  That is, has water gotten behind the fiberglass and rotten out the core layer between the two layers of fiberglass?  If you are financing a boat, the bank may require a Marine Survey.  This is akin to a home inspection in buying a house.  The surveyor will have a moisture meter which gives some indication of water intrusion.  Most common trouble spot on a power boat is a wet transom.  This is the back wall of the boat; an area that is nearly always under water and then also most greatly affected by the "torque" forces of the engine.  

Another common trouble spot is soft/wet floors.  These soft floors are not always in combination with a wet transom but by design, all interior water rolls to the rear of the boat so if you find one problem, look for the other problem.  

It does seem that a deck boat would meet your intended use.  I have no knowledge of this brand or model.  

I guess you need a boating license in Michigan.  Sheriff Deputies often pull up to a crowd of boaters all rafted together and do a quick Safety Inspection looking for drunks and flagrant violators. 

That is a nice boat but I can't help with your decision.

In reply to John Welsh (Moderate Supporter) :

All good points. 

I've been sailing on Lake Michigan my whole life. I've been on multiple pontoon boats and other types of motorboats. I would never take a pontoon boat on Lake Michigan unless it was just puttering around a calm harbor or channel. They're floating party platforms.

Boats have been nuts this year.  I paid $35k for my 2015 AR240 with a whole slew of upgrades (full JL audio, seadeck etc).  It had 60 hours on it.   That same boat is going for 45k right now 3 years later. 

If you can wait a month, then try again.  nov/dec is when people realize they are paying for storage of a boat.  though sometimes early fall is good as well (they dont want to pay to have it winterized and wrapped up for storage or pay for storage).  

Deck boats are usually extremely expensive compared to pontoons. Yeah they are a bit faster than older ones.  A new, tritoon with a 200 yamaha on the back should be around 30k.  Financing is a LOT easier and cheaper on new boats as well.  

If you are paying cash I'd like to think a few decades newer boat should be in the same price range.  as IMHO 11k seems a lot for a 1998 boat.  

Some more on wet transoms.  

https://seaworthyinspections.com.au/wet-transoms/

I'l  agree that a deck boat will be fine for Penwater Lake but as for the big water of Lake Mich...  You will have to be very mindful of the conditions.  Some times (not always) the conditions will be good enough to head out the Penwater Channel to take the deck boat out to the Big Lake and watch the sun set but you will have to be smart and be mindful of when it is just not right for your "flat, open bow boat.  You can easily get swampped or rolled by what the Big Lake has to offer.  On those occasions, stay in the small lake.  

Open deck boats and big lakes are not a good idea. Boats like that are for getting a lot of people to the party. Those people all become a concern when the lake storms up.

Good info,

I'll check for water intrusion in any boat that I look at.  Is 640 hours a good or bad thing on a boat from 1998?

The goal here is to have fun with the teenagers while we can, they grow up and go away real quick.  Their favorite part of last summer was tubing behind a friends boat and we have had thoughts of a boat since buying the cabin four years ago.  

Trying to stay around or under the $10k mark so older boats are where we are and I agree this one appears nice but pushing 25 years old.   I didn't find that many comparables yet, in that price range, just older junk for half or slightly newer for almost double.

I understand about the Big lake, it can change in a hurry.  We will just park at the beach on the big lake and play on the smaller ones.

Boats are expensive to buy right now, but I really strongly disagree with the "hole in the water... money" and "bring out another thousand."

If you take your boat to a marina for anything, yes.  That's like taking your Maserati to the dealer for a $500 oil change.  But look at what you have... it's a chevy 350.  Lower units and outdrives are stoopid simple.  The only things specific to that marine application are the electronics and the water pump, but about the only difference between auto and marine are the inclusion of little screens to act as flame arrestors.  Need an alternator?  You could go to the marina and buy a $200 alternator... or you could go to Auto Zone and get a $49 reman and swap out the little screens.

It's a car that floats, and it uses off-the-shelf cheap parts.  Don't stress.  Make sure the hull is good.  If you tap on it with a knuckle and it sounds like you're hitting a quartz countertop, it's good.  If it sounds like hitting drywall, not good.

Bravo III outdrive is one of the finest, most bulletproof units Mercruiser ever made.  Glorious overkill.  That outdrive can easily handle 450-500 hp.  The price isn't bad, but boat values are so variable based on region.

Triple check the trailer to make sure it's adequate.  Also, do some googling on that model to find it's dry weight.  Add 500 lbs for anchor, fuel, lifejackets, paddles, fishing gear, etc.  Add (probably) somewhere around 750-1000 for the trailer.  Make sure your tow rig is up to that task.

clutchsmoke said:

In reply to John Welsh (Moderate Supporter) :

All good points. 

I've been sailing on Lake Michigan my whole life. I've been on multiple pontoon boats and other types of motorboats. I would never take a pontoon boat on Lake Michigan unless it was just puttering around a calm harbor or channel. They're floating party platforms.

We were twice in Dad's Grady White this summer on Green Bay, in rough water - nothing to the Grady, but it would have been quite uncomfortable in Grandpa's old 16' Sea Ray - when we saw Pontoon boats crossing the bay. One was out at Chambers Island, not sure where he was headed but it looked like Cedar River (15 miles). Another, we were on an 8 mile run. We passed a pontoon, that had come from south of us (could have been a 1/3 mile, could have been 15 miles). It was rough that day. 30 minutes later, after we were at our destination 8 miles north, he came lumbering past us again. Looked like he had 4 portable gas tanks with him.

I wouldn't want to be in a Pontoon myself, but folks are doing it.

akylekoz said:

Good info,

I'll check for water intrusion in any boat that I look at.  Is 640 hours a good or bad thing on a boat from 1998?

 

That's only 30 hours a year, so very low.  That's equivalent to about 2000 miles in a car.  NYC-Miami-NYC.  In one summer, I often put 30 hours a week on a boat.

Sounds like they used it Memorial day, 4th of July, and Labor day, and maybe a few weekends in between.

Agreed with the general statements here. Water intrusion into the hull where it results in rotted wood or soaked foam, and engine and drive maintenance are the two big things to look at. Boats are like neglected cars - they always need something, but on the balance they are still worth the aggravation to me. 

Price isn't bad for what it is. Performance is definitely better than the average pontoon, although the newer tritoons with ski packs and big outboards would give it a run. You won't find any of those in the same price range. Rough water performance is better in a deck boat than an older 2 tube pontoon, but not as good as a newer 3 tube that's built right. And none of those are close to being an off-shore boat like a Grady White or Boston Whaler. But that doesn't mean you can't get out in the bays on calm days if you plan, stay aware, and choose your weather window. 

BTW, those tritoons with 200HP on the back are now more like $45k (and up) new, not 30. Around here a 10 year old used tritoon with 150+ on the back is still over $25k. 

I think that is a very fair price in the current used boat market, if it's solid. It's all about the condition of this specific boat.  Get it checked out by a good boat mechanic.  Boats are a bitch to work on compared to cars, and it's a lot harder to find correct parts -- part #s changed mid-year, etc.   Boats are not assembled anywhere near the quality standards of cars...often not even to RV levels of engineering and finish, especially in 1998.  It's hard to assess common issues to a specific year/manufacturer like you can with cars.  An PPI on a used boat is an even better idea than a PPI on a cheap Porsche. 

Most repairs are within grasp of a DIY'er, however boats are purely pleasure craft.  I would rather just pay someone to do a lot of things because that's not how I want to spend my weekends. 

Dual prop out-drive is a nice upgrade!  

I don't know anything about Lake Michigan.  None of these freshwater pleasure boats are very pleasurable or capable at sea.  I assume the big lakes are similar.  

p.s.  Don't forget your drain plug.

Seller said:   "bravo III outdrive - 2 stainless steel counter rotating props, designed for better holeshot and corning performance."

I imagined two outdrives, but the pictures show different.  So it's got two screws on one shaft going in opposite directions?

How is this boat different thn a Bowrider?

In reply to Tyler H (Forum Supporter) :

Open deck boats have one fundamental flaw. Lack of a head ( toilet in non nautical speak ).    That means you either plan on returning to a porta-potti , someplace that has a toilet or jump in the lake.  
Cold water will prevent that most of the way through June and After September leaving only July and August where jumping in the lake is a viable solution.  
Do not minimize that. Women tend to be more modest about their bathroom needs and will often sit there grinding their teeth waiting for the chance to deal with it.  It's much worse during their time of the month.
     Guy's can unzip and let it fly off the side or stern without the same level of exposure.  
 

If there are abundant public toilets it won't be as big of an issue.   I live on a large lake and my wife can go just before we go out and on the Pontoon she wants me back at the dock in an hour and a half, rarely more than 2 hours.   If you have several women or girls even an hour might be too much. 
  
Larger  cruisers often have heads (toilets) and there you simply walk below and take care of business. 
   
Surprisingly my 28 foot Searay  in nice shape is only worth about  $3500.  It's fast enough to waterski from,  slow enough to cruise at less than 5 knots. ( just above an idle),  I've carried as many as 22 people ( overloaded) but its most comfortable with 10 or less. Sleeps 6, has a galley ( stove has never been used) and dining table, plus an Ice Box.  Even though I have owned it since 1979 ( ordered in fall of1978)  it has about  3000 miles on it.  Over the life of my boat I've spent an average of $500 a year in maintenance. ( I do most oil changes etc.) Insurance costs me about $300 a year.  I used to use a few tanks ( 105 gallons) of fuel a year  but now a tank will last me two years.  
  

 

Curtis73 (Forum Supporter) said:

akylekoz said:

Good info,

I'll check for water intrusion in any boat that I look at.  Is 640 hours a good or bad thing on a boat from 1998?

 

That's only 30 hours a year, so very low.  That's equivalent to about 2000 miles in a car.  NYC-Miami-NYC.  In one summer, I often put 30 hours a week on a boat.

Sounds like they used it Memorial day, 4th of July, and Labor day, and maybe a few weekends in between.

That is very typical usage. I rarely get 30 hours a year anymore.  

In reply to frenchyd :

I just shopped Chicago to mid Wisconsin and found one with a head, with those exact thoughts.  Two daughters and a wife tells me this is a good idea.

ultraclyde (Forum Supporter) said:

Agreed with the general statements here. Water intrusion into the hull where it results in rotted wood or soaked foam, and engine and drive maintenance are the two big things to look at. Boats are like neglected cars - they always need something, but on the balance they are still worth the aggravation to me. 

Price isn't bad for what it is. Performance is definitely better than the average pontoon, although the newer tritoons with ski packs and big outboards would give it a run. You won't find any of those in the same price range. Rough water performance is better in a deck boat than an older 2 tube pontoon, but not as good as a newer 3 tube that's built right. And none of those are close to being an off-shore boat like a Grady White or Boston Whaler. But that doesn't mean you can't get out in the bays on calm days if you plan, stay aware, and choose your weather window. 

BTW, those tritoons with 200HP on the back are now more like $45k (and up) new, not 30. Around here a 10 year old used tritoon with 150+ on the back is still over $25k. 

well GD... that's crazy pricing.

I have boated all my life.  there is always a trade off to any boat design. My Yamaha is good at a lot of things, but great at none.  It's a very good all arounder.  I do not see much wrong with what most others are posting.  Boats are like badly taken care of cars, especially used.  If you can keep that in mind you should be fine. (Grew up in a 1991 Supra Combrio, FIL has a 1996 body glove Nautique and a 1999 Regal 2600LSR (28ft boat with head))  

The head on the regal has been used twice and both times it broke while being used and resulted in a husband (myself) spending the rest of the tirp dealing with it.  While my wife was super embarassed.  Down south the water is comfortable early may to late september normally.  and then it's too cold for the wimmenz (and kids).  I'll usually still go out until October and be out in April for quick cruises to local restaurants.  

In reply to akylekoz :

If that boat is in good shape that seems like a good deal for a ski-and-screwing-around boat, particularly given the super-hot boat market right now. 

Of course, you have to store it until it gets warm again in Michigan to use it, but you know this already. 

I've never dealt with a head, but have heard enough horror stories from those who have - experienced boaters, btw - that we avoid it. But we're never that far from facilities - max would be about 30 minutes in really bad weather. I'd look at the lakes you're planning on using the boat on and figure out if a head is worth the hassle or not. For us, almost every boat launch has at least a porta-potty; most have actual facilities with running water. Worst case scenario is if we're on the river between the dams, a fishing-only spot - no pleasure boating, and if we were *really* in a bind we'd have to either go onshore (might have to get a foot wet) and hide in the trees, go to the golf course that is on the river and use one of their toilets, and possibly buy a beer, or go back to the launch and get in the car and drive 500 yards to a bar where we'd have to buy a beer.

This isn't to say you shouldn't consider it. You should. But I have never known it to be an issue. My wife has been using a detergent bottle with the bottom cut off since she was probably 4 years old.

For #2, plan a tiny bit and it shouldn't be an issue.

YMMV.

What do boats and swimming pools have in common?  

akylekoz said:

The goal here is to have fun with the teenagers while we can, they grow up and go away real quick.  Their favorite part of last summer was tubing behind a friends boat and we have had thoughts of a boat since buying the cabin four years ago. 

Yes!  Get a boat!  If not this one, then another.   We'd been in a similar spot for years, with ready river access nearby and no boat.  Finally bought a neighbor's old boat with a 90HP outboard, and my only regret was not doing it sooner.

My kids have thoroughly enjoyed having our modest boat around.  They loved taking it out this summer when we camped at Lake Chesdin.  My oldest (now 17) was sure to successfully complete his boater safety course before we left so he could pilot the boat with his friends aboard.  

Sure, a boat can be expensive, but if you do your homework before you buy, and most of the repairs and maintenance after you buy, it's much like any other used vehicle.  My boat is far from perfect, but we've more than gotten our money's worth out of it.

frenchyd said:

Curtis73 (Forum Supporter) said:

akylekoz said:

Good info,

I'll check for water intrusion in any boat that I look at.  Is 640 hours a good or bad thing on a boat from 1998?

 

That's only 30 hours a year, so very low.  That's equivalent to about 2000 miles in a car.  NYC-Miami-NYC.  In one summer, I often put 30 hours a week on a boat.

Sounds like they used it Memorial day, 4th of July, and Labor day, and maybe a few weekends in between.

That is very typical usage. I rarely get 30 hours a year anymore.  

So you're saying I'm an over-boater?  Yes.  Yes I am.  All the boating.

I have owned boats all my life mostly large sailboats and racing sailboats. At 25 years old unless stored inside I would bet there is water intrusion in floors, deck and transom. Look for fiberglass gelcoat crazing for areas to inspect closely. You can sometimes tap on the hull in suspicious areas with a small rubber mallet and hear the difference in tone in water soaked areas. Marine Surveyors are typically expensive but worth the money if they give an opinion that saves you a bunch of headaches and money. The problem with boats is they are typically used hard put away and never get proper maintenance until they are ready to be used again. Rebedding fittings, changing oil in engines, gear cases never gets done unless there is a problem and if owners can't do it their self it is very expensive.