Summit pulls Speedmaster products after finding counterfeit parts

Both Summit and Jegs sell a lot of in-house parts that could be considered copies. For example, the intake manifolds I have on my Trans Am's 400 and my Dodge's 360 were branded Professional Products and Jegs respectively. They are both copies of the Edelbrock Performer Air Gap. Now, there are subtle differences:

-The Pontiac intake has the casting bosses for MPFI or port nitrous, where the Edelbrock does not (I wanted that)

-The Dodge intake has bolt patterns for either LA engines or Magnum engines (The Edelbrock Magnum intake was not available at the time of ordering due to the foundry change, and this was the only other Magnum-specific intake made at the time, not to mention it was triple the price when available)

The difference here is that neither of those parts had casting numbers, marks, or branding to indicate they were anything but what they are. The Speedmaster stuff did, and that makes them counterfeit, which is much worse. I knew I was taking a gamble on either of those parts I ordered, and I actually had to buy two of the Magnum intakes to get a decent one I could use. But if I saw they had tried passing them off as something Edelbrock made, I would have blown the whistle too. 

In reply to AngryCorvair (Forum Supporter) :

Except that it has been known for years that Speedmaster ripped off Broader. So why now?  

BBULL said:

In reply to AngryCorvair (Forum Supporter) :

Except that it has been known for years that Speedmaster ripped off Broader. So why now?  

Putting Broader's logo on the part takes this from "Sorry, you don't have a case" to every lawyer who runs "You don't pay unless we win" ads camping out in front of Broader's office waiting for them to open.

MadScientistMatt said:

BBULL said:

In reply to AngryCorvair (Forum Supporter) :

Except that it has been known for years that Speedmaster ripped off Broader. So why now?  

Putting Broader's logo on the part takes this from "Sorry, you don't have a case" to every lawyer who runs "You don't pay unless we win" ads camping out in front of Broader's office waiting for them to open.

Yup. Copying a performance part- "Yeah, it's bad but there's really nothing we can do..."

          Copying a trademark- "Just a sec and we'll get that C&D letter drafted right up!"

AngryCorvair (Forum Supporter) said:

sounds like Summit is trying to handle this honorably.  good on them.

Just saw a video about this, and saw Summit's reaction to the part design/builder buy and open a counterfeit part he got from Summit.  

And I have to disagree that it's honorable.  Seems far more CYA instead of doing the right thing. They claim to care about counterfeit parts and whatnot, but how in the world did this part end up in your catalog in the first place?  It's not hard to check if a parts supplier is an accepted builder of parts- just call the person with his name on the product.  Five min call, 2 min email, and within one day (unless the person is on vacation) Summit would have known if parts maker A is an approved builder of Hot Rod Part B.  They didn't do that, so IMHO, they are not serious about counterfeit parts.

Now that they got caught cheating, they are backtracking to attempt to save face.  But  this isn't normal cheating, this is cheating both the designer and builder of the part AS WELL AS their customers who expect the part to be genuine.  This is being lazy for the sake of making money.  Especially for parts that they don't directly support, so sales end their responsibility of the part.

I get that people want better deals and faster shipping.  I do to.  But that's not an excuse for sellers to source fake parts and say they are real.  

alfadriver said:

AngryCorvair (Forum Supporter) said:

sounds like Summit is trying to handle this honorably.  good on them.

Just saw a video about this, and saw Summit's reaction to the part design/builder buy and open a counterfeit part he got from Summit.  

And I have to disagree that it's honorable.  Seems far more CYA instead of doing the right thing. They claim to care about counterfeit parts and whatnot, but how in the world did this part end up in your catalog in the first place?  It's not hard to check if a parts supplier is an accepted builder of parts- just call the person with his name on the product.  Five min call, 2 min email, and within one day (unless the person is on vacation) Summit would have known if parts maker A is an approved builder of Hot Rod Part B.  They didn't do that, so IMHO, they are not serious about counterfeit parts.

Now that they got caught cheating, they are backtracking to attempt to save face.  But  this isn't normal cheating, this is cheating both the designer and builder of the part AS WELL AS their customers who expect the part to be genuine.  This is being lazy for the sake of making money.  Especially for parts that they don't directly support, so sales end their responsibility of the part.

I get that people want better deals and faster shipping.  I do to.  But that's not an excuse for sellers to source fake parts and say they are real.  

How many parts does Summit stock/offer?  How many suppliers are not the direct manufacturer of the parts getting sold?

You are talking about Summit having to check millions of parts.  5 minute calls that wouldn't be 5 minutes in any sense of the word.  It would be impossible to do business on the scale Summit does.

For berk's sake, major airlines can't do this, but you want Summit to?

I'm wondering what the odds are of both the brand-name and off-brand parts being made in the same Chinese factory and some of them getting stuck in the wrong box. 

alfadriver said:

AngryCorvair (Forum Supporter) said:

sounds like Summit is trying to handle this honorably.  good on them.

Just saw a video about this, and saw Summit's reaction to the part design/builder buy and open a counterfeit part he got from Summit.  

And I have to disagree that it's honorable.  Seems far more CYA instead of doing the right thing. They claim to care about counterfeit parts and whatnot, but how in the world did this part end up in your catalog in the first place?  It's not hard to check if a parts supplier is an accepted builder of parts- just call the person with his name on the product.  Five min call, 2 min email, and within one day (unless the person is on vacation) Summit would have known if parts maker A is an approved builder of Hot Rod Part B.  They didn't do that, so IMHO, they are not serious about counterfeit parts.

Now that they got caught cheating, they are backtracking to attempt to save face.  But  this isn't normal cheating, this is cheating both the designer and builder of the part AS WELL AS their customers who expect the part to be genuine.  This is being lazy for the sake of making money.  Especially for parts that they don't directly support, so sales end their responsibility of the part.

I get that people want better deals and faster shipping.  I do to.  But that's not an excuse for sellers to source fake parts and say they are real.  

this assumes that part maker A is honest and if they are willing to steal intellectual property they shouldn't be trusted.  Short of having an impossibly complete understanding of the market for every part in their catalog, quality control for this type of thing is pantomime.  It should still be done, but shouldn't be considered absolute.  

Toyman! said:

I'm wondering what the odds are of both the brand-name and off-brand parts being made in the same Chinese factory and some of them getting stuck in the wrong box. 

 

On the original video, they state they make them in house. 

OK so I am not gonna watch the video, whats the 5 minute version?

Did someone buy a part in a Speedmaster box and it came with a Broader logo on the part?

Did Summit advertise "Broader" parts even though they are not an authorized distributor?

I am unclear on the connection between Speedmaster, Summit, and Broader.  

93gsxturbo said:

OK so I am not gonna watch the video, whats the 5 minute version?

Did someone buy a part in a Speedmaster box and it came with a Broader logo on the part?

Did Summit advertise "Broader" parts even though they are not an authorized distributor?

I am unclear on the connection between Speedmaster, Summit, and Broader.  

somebody contacted Broader for a part warranty on something that was purchased from speedmaster.  Summit pulled Speedmaster parts.

ClearWaterMS said:

93gsxturbo said:

OK so I am not gonna watch the video, whats the 5 minute version?

Did someone buy a part in a Speedmaster box and it came with a Broader logo on the part?

Did Summit advertise "Broader" parts even though they are not an authorized distributor?

I am unclear on the connection between Speedmaster, Summit, and Broader.  

somebody contacted Broader for a part warranty on something that was purchased from speedmaster.  Summit pulled Speedmaster parts.

Additionally, Jay bought one for verification which is shown in the video.

I just find it disingenuous that the customer called broader for a warranty concern when they clearly bought a speedmaster part, whether it had his name on it or not. Even broader has instructions on his site for his products. Did speedmaster justblow the customer off? Refer them to broaders site? Still many unanswered questions remain that will remain unanswered.

93gsxturbo said:

OK so I am not gonna watch the video, whats the 5 minute version?

Tangential rant, but this is something that drives me nuts lately. It seems like everything has to be some 20 minute video lately, when I can read the story, and retain the info much better when reading it as well. Okay, rant over, return to your regularly-scheduled programming now.

Mr_Asa said:

For berk's sake, major airlines can't do this, but you want Summit to?

What airlines do is not relevant.

Summit knew exactly who they were dealing with.

Mr_Asa said:

alfadriver said:

AngryCorvair (Forum Supporter) said:

sounds like Summit is trying to handle this honorably.  good on them.

Just saw a video about this, and saw Summit's reaction to the part design/builder buy and open a counterfeit part he got from Summit.  

And I have to disagree that it's honorable.  Seems far more CYA instead of doing the right thing. They claim to care about counterfeit parts and whatnot, but how in the world did this part end up in your catalog in the first place?  It's not hard to check if a parts supplier is an accepted builder of parts- just call the person with his name on the product.  Five min call, 2 min email, and within one day (unless the person is on vacation) Summit would have known if parts maker A is an approved builder of Hot Rod Part B.  They didn't do that, so IMHO, they are not serious about counterfeit parts.

Now that they got caught cheating, they are backtracking to attempt to save face.  But  this isn't normal cheating, this is cheating both the designer and builder of the part AS WELL AS their customers who expect the part to be genuine.  This is being lazy for the sake of making money.  Especially for parts that they don't directly support, so sales end their responsibility of the part.

I get that people want better deals and faster shipping.  I do to.  But that's not an excuse for sellers to source fake parts and say they are real.  

How many parts does Summit stock/offer?  How many suppliers are not the direct manufacturer of the parts getting sold?

You are talking about Summit having to check millions of parts.  5 minute calls that wouldn't be 5 minutes in any sense of the word.  It would be impossible to do business on the scale Summit does.

For berk's sake, major airlines can't do this, but you want Summit to?

Someone has to source every single part in the catalog. So of course I expect them to know where it comes from. 
 

AI doesn't source the parts they sell, people do. They are cutting corners and hope for the best. 

ClearWaterMS said:

alfadriver said:

AngryCorvair (Forum Supporter) said:

sounds like Summit is trying to handle this honorably.  good on them.

Just saw a video about this, and saw Summit's reaction to the part design/builder buy and open a counterfeit part he got from Summit.  

And I have to disagree that it's honorable.  Seems far more CYA instead of doing the right thing. They claim to care about counterfeit parts and whatnot, but how in the world did this part end up in your catalog in the first place?  It's not hard to check if a parts supplier is an accepted builder of parts- just call the person with his name on the product.  Five min call, 2 min email, and within one day (unless the person is on vacation) Summit would have known if parts maker A is an approved builder of Hot Rod Part B.  They didn't do that, so IMHO, they are not serious about counterfeit parts.

Now that they got caught cheating, they are backtracking to attempt to save face.  But  this isn't normal cheating, this is cheating both the designer and builder of the part AS WELL AS their customers who expect the part to be genuine.  This is being lazy for the sake of making money.  Especially for parts that they don't directly support, so sales end their responsibility of the part.

I get that people want better deals and faster shipping.  I do to.  But that's not an excuse for sellers to source fake parts and say they are real.  

this assumes that part maker A is honest and if they are willing to steal intellectual property they shouldn't be trusted.  Short of having an impossibly complete understanding of the market for every part in their catalog, quality control for this type of thing is pantomime.  It should still be done, but shouldn't be considered absolute.  

Uh, why not?  If speed part is from Bobs Speed Shop in Elkhart IN, but you decide to source the part from China and not ask Bobs if they are an approved source, that's on you. Summit really screwed the pooch here. 
 

OEMs know exactly where they source their parts from, why can't summit?  Heck, Kroger knows where all the imported meat, cheese, and produce come from. Summit should be capable of doing it. 
 

The biggest problem is that this was a named item, not a knock off. And summit claimed they are big on preventing counterfeit parts. Which clearly they are not. If they were, they would have made sure the named part was genuine. 

In reply to alfadriver :

So, when did speedmaster change their part? I clearly have the affected part number in my possession per jegs, but it's not the current part in question. It's clearly black anodized with speedmaster written in it.
Should speedmaster have notified their customers the part was changing? Maybe. Do they have to? No. It's still a transbrake for a c4 transmission.

I'm sure it's similar for summit, but jegs has a "555" department. Their main thing is if you call or email about their branded part, they know who is the original producer of their private label part. But really, they don't know everyone else's parts.

In reply to Ranger50 :

Why is that relevant?  Summit has to contact a seller, negotiate a specific part, negotiate a price, negotiate a quantity, negotiate a cadence, and negotiate shipping. In all of that, they should be capable of contacting the home office of the part to make sure it's correct. Heck, they should only contact the home office of the part to get it in the first place- be it a sub maker from China or directly from the maker in the US. 
 

If they are not getting the parts like that, then they are not serious about counterfeit or knockoff parts as they claim. 
 

It should not be up to the consumer to make sure the catalog has genuine parts. That's 100% on the middleman, which is summit. 

ClearWaterMS said:

93gsxturbo said:

OK so I am not gonna watch the video, whats the 5 minute version?

Did someone buy a part in a Speedmaster box and it came with a Broader logo on the part?

Did Summit advertise "Broader" parts even though they are not an authorized distributor?

I am unclear on the connection between Speedmaster, Summit, and Broader.  

somebody contacted Broader for a part warranty on something that was purchased from speedmaster.  Summit pulled Speedmaster parts.

OK so this sort of answers the question but not really.

If the part was advertised as "Speedmaster" and came in a "Speedmaster" box but said "Broader" on the part, then this is on Speedmaster for knocking off parts, or maybe on Broader for buying cheap Chinese E36 M3, putting their name on it, and now they gotta pay the piper because the same parts are made in the same eggroll factory and just had the boxes switched and now the cat is out of the bag.  They know the person requesting warranty didn't buy it from them, and single-chaining it was the only way they were able to keep their trade secret and source a secret.  

If Summit was selling generic parts labelled as "Broader" because they were buying parts through an importer and requesting that the importer label these parts as "Broader", then its a Summit problem, not a Broader or Speedmaster problem.  

I still dont know what to think of this mess.   Seems like Broader may not be being 100% honest (they get their parts from the same place anyone else does but dont want to admit it), or Speedmaster effed up and put a knockoff Broader part in a Speedmaster box. 

But here is where it gets dirty.  If Broader only sells factory-direct (which someone said that is the only source for Broader parts), then why would Summit even be trying to knock off Broader parts.  Seems more to me like Broader is butthurt about being exposed as Chinese crap and tried to bury their supplier, and Summit took the fall.  

Again, thats just my opinion.  But the whole thing stinks and doesn't make complete sense to me.  

In reply to 93gsxturbo :

It doesn't make sense cause you didn't watch the video.

The tooling marks, the logo engraving method, all sorts of stuff are different on the Speedmaster parts.  I think I remember hearing that Broader is all US made.

Check the video from Broader.

Mr_Asa said:

In reply to 93gsxturbo :

It doesn't make sense cause you didn't watch the video.

The tooling marks, the logo engraving method, all sorts of stuff are different on the Speedmaster parts.  I think I remember hearing that Broader is all US made.

Check the video from Broader.

If Summit was selling "Broader" labelled parts that Summit sourced overseas then there ya go.  Summit was the bad guy.

If someone ordered a "Speedmaster" part from Summit and it showed up in a "Speedmaster" box but was logo'd as a "Broader" inside, then its not really Summit's problem other than maybe they need to vet their vendors a bit more.  They can't be on the hook to open every box up.

Then the next question is why logo it as a "Broader" and not an established name brand like "TCI" or "Hipster's Brake".  If I was gonna make knockoffs I would knock off something with some brand recognition.  

Snip below is the building that "Broader" lists on their "contact me" - not exactly a big name in the trans business.

not exactly a big name in the trans business.

This could be why they were copied. The big companies have the resources to chase down the counterfeiters. Little guys don't.  

Toyman! said:

not exactly a big name in the trans business.

This could be why they were copied. The big companies have the resources to chase down the counterfeiters. Little guys don't.  

I'm tellin ya this whole thing stinks and something isn't adding up. 

Why didn't the guy who bought a "Speedmaster" part not question it right away when he opened the box?  Did he think it was a happy accident?

Why didn't he go back to Summit for warranty work since that is who sold it?

Summit doesn't even list "Broader" as a brand - which makes sense to a point but then why didn't bro question it right away and instead wait till warranty work.

Why did "Speedmaster" take it upon themselves to knock off "Broader" when there are no less than 100 more recognizable transmission brands out there.  I don't buy the argument that its because they were a small time shop.  Look how many M18 fake batteries are out there.  Fake Gucci.  Fake Jordans.  Don't tell me that the counterfeiters care about flying under the radar.  

In reply to 93gsxturbo :

Given how Summit's website works, and how they have a pretty strong eBay presence, it's possible that he didn't know what brand it was sold under until he took the freshly inoperative unit out of the transmission.