Toyo R888's?

What's the deal with Toyo R888's? I know that they became the Spec Miata tire for about a year and then they switched back to the RA1's.

I was thinking about picking up a set for track day use.

I love mine. But apparently they weren't up to the demands of the Spec Miata racers (fast, cheap, durable -- it seems with the RA1 you can have all three). If you get the R888s remember that they like much lower tire pressures than the RA1s did.

I am on my third set of R888s (two for the Miata, and one for the M3). I love them. Toyo is also really generous with people who use them for solo in Canada -- lots of contingency money and sponsorships.

There seem to be a bunch of Spec Miata guys who are stuck with new, unused sets of them that they are selling cheap.

I didn't actually hate mine, but they didn't make me very happy, either. I found I had to run higher pressures to keep from skinning the outside edge off, and thats with 4 degrees negative, 600ppi springs, big bars.....The Toyo recommendations as to setup when changing from RA1 were all exactly wrong for me.

I ordered a short stack of Goodyears to try this year.

ZOO wrote: I love mine. But apparently they weren't up to the demands of the Spec Miata racers (fast, cheap, durable -- it seems with the RA1 you can have all three). If you get the R888s remember that they like much lower tire pressures than the RA1s did.

Higher pressures, not lower, at least for road racing/track day use. Not a bad tire, but they brought nothing to the table that was better than the RA-1 which lasts longer and isn't as fussy with the pressures. As much of a debacle as the R888 was, I give Toyo props for listening to it's customers and giving us the RA-1 back.

How do people feel about the Nitto NT-01 when compared to the Toyos?

I love my RA-1s. I'm still trying to wear out the ones I ran in the Targa in 2008!

944 spec guys had the same complaints as the spec miata.

R888 was harder to set-up to be fast. It was NO FASTER when optimized and was harder to drive in a race and lasted 1/2 as long.

The R888 was not a horrible tire, but no improvement over there R888 other than it could be run full tread and reasonably fast. Otherwise the RA-1 was superior or equal in all other aspects. Since it lasted so much longer it made sense to keep that tire for the budget spec classes.

The NT01 seem good too, but I have never run them.

I love my RA1s, other than I use them for autocross, which puts me in race tire class, when people using R1Rs are in the street tire class.

Currently trying to burn them up so I can get cheater tires, too, hahaha.

The 888 was a fine tire but cost more, wore more and went only a tiny bit faster than the RA-1.

I run the NT01s... and they are really great. Cheap, long lasting and similar grip to the RA-1 without shaving. I am faster on Nittos than RA-1s but too much has changed on the car to allow me to give credit to the tires themselves. The only downside I see is more of a tradeoff - they are not as good in the wet but have huge stable blocks so they don't chunk or go all greasy on hot days at full depth.

I like my 888's ... a lot... maybe because I'm coming from 615's (trackday usage)

ddavidv wrote:

ZOO wrote: I love mine. But apparently they weren't up to the demands of the Spec Miata racers (fast, cheap, durable -- it seems with the RA1 you can have all three). If you get the R888s remember that they like much lower tire pressures than the RA1s did.

Higher pressures, not lower, at least for road racing/track day use. Not a bad tire, but they brought nothing to the table that was better than the RA-1 which lasts longer and isn't as fussy with the pressures. As much of a debacle as the R888 was, I give Toyo props for listening to it's customers and giving us the RA-1 back.

Sorry, but my data supports my initial argument. Lower pressures worked better for the R888s on my car. I believe that Toyo recommended lower pressures, too -- initially people were running high, RA1 pressure and really not liking the tires.

I found a set of four, never mounted and very close to home for $400.

I currently have a six year old set of Yokohamas with maybe seven track days on them, that I was thinking of replacing, more for their age than anything else.

Would I just be happier spending more for RA1's?

You don't currently have RA1s, so I suspect you will be more than happy with the R888s. Mine did everything I asked for last year -- lots of track miles, at least a hundred autox runs, and street driving. They don't owe me anything.

I've never used the R888, but a Spec Miata racer buddy of mine prefers the RA1. In addition to being more finicky about pressure and setup, he thinks they are more prone to aging/heat cycling out than the RA1s, which are consistently fast to the cords.

In reply to Keith:

I've used both the NT01 and the RA1. From a purely non-competitive track day perspective, I prefer the NT01 on a dry track and the RA1s in the rain, but I've never put a stopwatch to them back-to-back in the same conditions.

The main reason I like the NT01 better in the dry is that it's molded at 6/32" and has pretty big tread blocks, so you can run them without shaving and not get the tread squirm you'd get with an unshaved RA1. Conversely, the RA1s are better in a heavy rain (because of the tread design and deeper tread depth). Heavy rain at track days is not uncommon in my part of the world, but may not be as big a concern for you.

The RA1s are quieter, but the only reason that would matter is if you were driving them to/from the track, and even that's a fairly minor consideration. Last time I price shopped them, the NT01s were cheaper.

I've been trying to wear out a set of 235/40-17 RA1s forever on the M3. They just keep getting better. Damn them!

I asked Paul @ Radial Tire Co. in Silver Spring MD, (AKA the all-knowing tire guy) about NT01s the other day. He said "They're RA1s but for that you can't flip 'em when they're 1/2 done"

I'm probably getting another set of bigger RA1s + some 9" rims and a fender lip rolling later this season.

Thanks for the feedback on the Nitto.

The NT-01, R888 and RA-1 all seem to trade around for which is cheapest. We have all three on various cars at FM depending on price and sizing availability and we treat them all pretty much the same. Of course, we spend more time optimizing power and suspension than trying to eke the most out of the tires, so they tend to be just run as-is.

I chose the RA-1 over the R888 for the Targa because of the wet weather capability, the deeper tread depth (there's a minimum depth requirement on the race and I wasn't sure what my wear would be like) and the fact that they seem to be happy over a wider temperature range according to some reports. Someday I'll have to collect the three tires together and do a real test. I'm pretty sure we have all three of them in a 225/45-15 on the shop, but probably on widely varying wheel sizes.

Woody, for $400, get those R888s and have fun.

Slightly off topic, but how long would a set of NT-01's etc last, on a 220 hp, ~2600 lb car, daily driven, with about 3 autocrosses thrown in per season? Would you get 5000 miles out of them?

In reply to doc_speeder:

Hard to say, but I guess it would be possible if your driving style is kind to your tires.

I had NT01s on my SVT Focus (roughly the same weight as your car, but -50hp). I could get about 10 track days out of them, with some driving to and from the track. I would estimate that to be around 2500 miles, with more than half being track use. But, I'm pretty easy on my tires, and I was using them on track below the legal minimum tread. You probably shouldn't do that on a daily driver.

If I were looking for a daily-driven R-compound tire, I'd get the RA1s.

In addition to being quieter, the RA1s would last longer and have better wet performance because of the tread depth. In autocross use you probably wouldn't have serious problems with tread squirm or abnormal wear. You're going to be tick or two off the Hoosier A6/Kumho V710 with either tire, so you might as well get better road performance for your money.

billy3esq wrote: In reply to Keith: I've used both the NT01 and the RA1. From a purely non-competitive track day perspective, I prefer the NT01 on a dry track and the RA1s in the rain, but I've never put a stopwatch to them back-to-back in the same conditions. The main reason I like the NT01 better in the dry is that it's molded at 6/32" and has pretty big tread blocks, so you can run them without shaving and not get the tread squirm you'd get with an unshaved RA1. Conversely, the RA1s are better in a heavy rain (because of the tread design and deeper tread depth). Heavy rain at track days is not uncommon in my part of the world, but may not be as big a concern for you.

My experience with the two tires was the same. I loved my NT-01s on my Miata, and wasn't quite as happy with the RA1s. But the RA1s are easier to find cast-offs, so that's what I have for my Miata for the track now.

Were I to continue to buy new tires, I'd probably stick with the NT-01 out here in Cal. Those things stood up to an incredible amount of abuse, and could have taken more if I'd had sufficient camber, or flipped them.

Now that I'm doing 944 Spec (yay!) I'm hearing similar things about the R888 vs. the RA1. Most guys have a set of R888s left over from last season that they keep around and only use for qualifying, then they race on RA1s. They seem to be a bit faster than the RA1s, but they can't stand the heat of a full race. Guys push the car on laps 3-4 to qualify, cell them for another lap or two, and then maybe have another go at a qualifying lap for lap 6.

Let's see. This particular RA-1 ran the Targa (it was one of 6 tires, so it saw 2/3 of the race distance), three days at Laguna Seca running double shifts, set the lap record for Miatas at our local track (which was later demolished first by a V8 Miata and then a very fast turbo car, but still), did probably a dozen local track days, a few autocrosses and a bunch of road miles including driving over Donner pass at night in the snow. And it's just starting to get good! It's the only one of the set that could possibly benefit from being flipped, the other 9 in the garage are evenly worn.

Can you still get a range of RA1 sizes still in the US? We can only get R888s from Toyo in Canada as fas as I am aware. I have never found a Canadian distributor for the NT01 (although they certainly can be shipped from the US).

FWIW, Woody, new R888s in 205/50/15s, with the discounts Toyo offers our club (47% off list) ended up costing me about $165 CDN a tire, so you're price is a smokin' deal -- especially since the CDN and US dollar are almost at par.

I've got a set of RA1s that look like Keith's all ready for our Locost. I've been saving them, and will hopefully get to use them this summer.

You can try these Hoosiers if you like. I found them to be a little squirmy but YMMV.