Formula One vs. NASCAR

Anti-stance wrote: In reply to racerdave600: Nope, I don't get tired of hearing you say it, I think its badass that you crewed in NASCAR. I have only crewed for an enduro with a few Grand Am drivers and in Trans Am. The tires are not 75#, we use the same Goodyears on the Trans Am cars. I think the wheel/tires on my Camry weigh more. Anywho, I am not saying its not impressive that they are doing 3 second pitstops in F1, but objectively look at what each individual does in a F1 pitstop and a NASCAR pitstop. It is way more athletic in NASCAR. I have have my fair amount of tire change pitstops as a jackman. I laugh when I hear F1 fanboys talk about how much faster their pitstops are.

Trans AM cars run a 28X10.0-15 tire? i thought they were all bigger wheel diameters..

does a Trans AM car have a steel wheel? how about an inner liner like they use at the faster tracks? 75 pounds was the last figure i saw somewhere in teh internets for how much a wheel/tire weighs on a NASCAR racer- and i believe it, given that the 275/60/15 tires mounted on old aluminum slots that were on the rear of my 74 Monte Carlo weighed just a hair under 50 pounds fully inflated.

regarding the budgets of the NASCAR teams: the last number i saw said it costs a sponsor $20million or so a year to get their logo on the hood, trunk, and quarter panels of a competitive team. i don't know how that figures into the actual operating budget of the team, but they also have other associate sponsors on the cars, too.

the smaller teams struggle- i have Jennifer Jo Cobb Racing as a friend on facebook, and they almost missed a race a couple of seeks ago because they couldn't afford $2k for new valvesprings and didn't know where the money was going to come from to buy tires.. she offered to put your corporate logo on the hood of her truck for the weekend for $2500. if you ever want to get a little peek into the inner workings of a woefully underfunded team that tries to make it to the track every week and doesn't just start and park, follow her... also, she's easy on the eyes, so that helps...

novaderrik wrote:

Anti-stance wrote: In reply to racerdave600: Nope, I don't get tired of hearing you say it, I think its badass that you crewed in NASCAR. I have only crewed for an enduro with a few Grand Am drivers and in Trans Am. The tires are not 75#, we use the same Goodyears on the Trans Am cars. I think the wheel/tires on my Camry weigh more. Anywho, I am not saying its not impressive that they are doing 3 second pitstops in F1, but objectively look at what each individual does in a F1 pitstop and a NASCAR pitstop. It is way more athletic in NASCAR. I have have my fair amount of tire change pitstops as a jackman. I laugh when I hear F1 fanboys talk about how much faster their pitstops are.

Trans AM cars run a 28X10.0-15 tire? i thought they were all bigger wheel diameters.. does a Trans AM car have a steel wheel? how about an inner liner like they use at the faster tracks?

Yes, it is a 15" wheel, yes it is a steel wheel, yes it even says "stockcar special" or some crap like that on the side, no we do not use inner liners.

I have a wheel in the trunk of my car and one of the tires here at work in the used tire trailer, I can weigh them. I have no idea what an inner liner weighs but I can only imagine it is maybe 10# tops.

All I know is grabbing two of them sure doesn't feel like 150#.

In reply to novaderrik:

Anti-Stance is correct. The TA2 Trans Am cars run Stock Car wheels and tires as the regular Trans Am cars run bigger diameter wheels and single locking lugs. The TA2s are a Howe chassis which is basically a circle track car

Pretty disingenuous to say Jennifer Jo Cobb doesn't start and park when she brings a second truck to the track to do just that.

turbojunker wrote: Pretty disingenuous to say Jennifer Jo Cobb doesn't start and park when she brings a second truck to the track to do just that.

If it costs the same amount of money to bring two as it does one and you pick up another 20k in cash..... That seems like a damn good deal to me....

turbojunker wrote: Pretty disingenuous to say Jennifer Jo Cobb doesn't start and park when she brings a second truck to the track to do just that.

the second truck is rented out to different drivers that are looking to get their names out there. they know their whole function is to show other potential owners that they can drive during qualifying and earn some money so JJC can actually race. it's not ideal, but it's what a small team's gotta do to keep the team going.

Flight Service wrote: Australian V8 Supercars. Wait what was the topic?

That's like NASCAR and F1 combined. Spec cars with template bodies that have zero in common with production cars on fancier tracks.

Ranger50 wrote:

turbojunker wrote: Pretty disingenuous to say Jennifer Jo Cobb doesn't start and park when she brings a second truck to the track to do just that.

If it costs the same amount of money to bring two as it does one and you pick up another 20k in cash..... That seems like a damn good deal to me....

A truck race hardly pays $20k to win, much less to finish 36th. The Nationwide teams parking a car to make tire money for the car they're racing barely get a $20k check.

Blake Koch made $8,264 for JJC Racing last night.

Having picked up both wheels in question, the NASCAR wheels are MUCH heavier. They have to be, to stand up to a 3400lb stockcar going into a corner at 200mph. The Howe chassis wheels don't have to deal with anywhere near as much speed or cornering force, and certainly not in a banked corner for as long as 10-12 secs.

I've driven the older Cup cars twice and I must say I was impressed with the things. I have a lot of respect for the guys who design and build them, along with the drivers who can really make them go fast. What I don't like about NASCAR is the WWE mentality, coupled with their refusal to even consider racing in the rain. Yeah, I know that subject's been beat to death but I still don't like it.

I'm just going to leave this here... http://www.corner-carvers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=46268

Synopsis: Guy buys used ARCA chassis to shove into a '69 Chevelle body, for used in trackday events. Read along as he learns NASCAR chassis technology.

The "big bar" cars sound interesting... "like driving a 3800lb go-kart"

racerfink wrote: Having picked up both wheels in question, the NASCAR wheels are MUCH heavier. They have to be, to stand up to a 3400lb stockcar going into a corner at 200mph. The Howe chassis wheels don't have to deal with anywhere near as much speed or cornering force, and certainly not in a banked corner for as long as 10-12 secs.

Unless the gauge of steel is different, it is the same wheel, 15x10 AERO or Bassett wheel. NASCAR with liner 62 lbs. without 50 lbs. TA2 cars are 2880 lbs. to NASCAR's 3400lbs. I was too busy to yank the tire out of the trailer and weigh it. For reference:

NASCAR tire, wheel, and liner

TA2 Howe Camaro chassis specs

Bassett light weight wheels 21lbs without tire

According to what I just Googled a Goodyear tire and liner is 34 lb. A Bassett wheel is 27 lb. Combo weighs 61 lbs, which feels right to me. You easily exceed that on a lot of street vehicles these days. A Chev Astro wheel and tire weighs 50 on my scale in the garage.

turboswede wrote: V8 SuperCar and BTCC/DTM. /thread

But they share the same flaw that NASCAR and F1 have.

They're racing on paved surfaces.

I mean, how boring can you get?

Javelin wrote:

Flight Service wrote: Australian V8 Supercars. Wait what was the topic?

That's like NASCAR and F1 combined. Spec cars with template bodies that have *zero* in common with production cars on street and road courses as to not bore the spectators.

fixed that for you

Interesting way to look at NASCAR setup: they are always cornering. They spend a lot more time in the corners than road race cars.

Keith Tanner wrote: Interesting way to look at NASCAR setup: they are always cornering. They spend a lot more time in the corners than road race cars.

yup.. they are either cornering a little or cornering a lot. and i can't think of any other racing series in the world that sustains the kinds of speeds they do for as long as they do. well, i guess there's Indy cars on ovals, but i keep forgetting about them except for the last weekend of May.

Keith's exactly right, when you are on the groove the car is constantly turning. The ones I drove were set up to do this (duh), in a small experiment I got on the groove in Turn One at Rockingham, put the pedal down and loosened my grip on the wheel, let my hands float about 1/4" from the grip. The car literally tracked the groove all by its lonesome. Of course, if you got off the groove you now had some drivin' to do. No way in hell that would ever work on a road course, but it did show me first hand the oval guys know exactly what they are doing.

That is usually done by caster lead. very helpful on short tracks.