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Tom Suddard
Tom Suddard Director of Marketing & Digital Assets
4/8/21 9:10 a.m.

Idk, I'm pretty excited about anything electric these days.

10 years ago the beacons of hope in the electric car world were the LEAF and the Volt. Sure, Teslas existed, but these two cars were "the future" and meant someday electric vehicles might be things normal people buy, and things normal people cross shop on more features than just the fuel source. They were slow, range was poor, and long-term reliability wasn't awesome.

Today, there are dozens of cars for sale or being marketed as soon to be for sale that have 300 miles of range, fast charging, and no compromises compared to a gas car. That's pretty darn cool.

tuna55
tuna55 MegaDork
4/8/21 9:15 a.m.
Tom Suddard said:

Idk, I'm pretty excited about anything electric these days.

10 years ago the beacons of hope in the electric car world were the LEAF and the Volt. Sure, Teslas existed, but these two cars were "the future" and meant someday electric vehicles might be things normal people buy, and things normal people cross shop on more features than just the fuel source. They were slow, range was poor, and long-term reliability wasn't awesome.

Today, there are dozens of cars for sale or being marketed as soon to be for sale that have 300 miles of range, fast charging, and no compromises compared to a gas car. That's pretty darn cool.

Hear hear!

I leased a 1st gen Leaf and really enjoyed the "quick enough" 90 miles of range. My Bolt, built just a few years later, is way quicker and has triple the range. Just a way better car. What does 2025, 2030 hold? It's great.

 

Keith Tanner
Keith Tanner MegaDork
4/8/21 9:25 a.m.

I'm excited about EVs as well, although I think there are far more cars in the "being marketed as soon to be for sale" 300 mile category right now. Turns out EVs are a little harder than they may initially appear so I'm not counting anything until it actually shows up in large numbers on the showrooms. The long gestation period of the Mach-E is an example.

What I think is going to make the difference is people getting real-world experience with EVs and realizing that the "one charge range" isn't really as important as they think is it. This may be an exponential thing - as more people get that experience, probably second-hand through their neighbors and friends, they'll be more likely to buy an EV and tell THEIR neighbors and friends.

There was a study recently that showed that people who had experienced an EV were quite a bit more likely to buy one, but of course there's a fundamental flaw in that people who are potentially interested in an EV are also going to try to experience one before buying it.

Tom Suddard
Tom Suddard Director of Marketing & Digital Assets
4/8/21 9:33 a.m.

Well put. And it's a tough concept to communicate. I've settled on "pretend your car magically filled itself with gas every time you parked it at your house for more than 10 min." It's such a paradigm shift that most people don't connect the dots when they see a commercial for an electric car.

ProDarwin
ProDarwin MegaDork
4/8/21 9:33 a.m.

I like it in the technology demonstrator sense.

I have zero interest in it from the actual usable car sense.  I'm far more interested in something like the Bolt.

mazdeuce - Seth
mazdeuce - Seth Mod Squad
4/8/21 10:15 a.m.

The Silverado EV on the same general platform is making me interested. 

Adrian_Thompson (Forum Supporter)
Adrian_Thompson (Forum Supporter) MegaDork
4/8/21 11:13 a.m.
Keith Tanner said:

...............The long gestation period of the Mach-E is an example..........

Just as an aside, I was still at Ford Design through the Mach E gestation.  The long period wasn't because of the EVside.  When the program was first floated the initial design concepts were awesome, back then it was more sedan like.  Then the dreaded bean counters got involved and it turned into nothing but an on paper Prius fighter to meet expected legislation for minimum investment.  Range, economy, aero targets came from one side with down sizing and cost reductions on the other.  within a few months the once lithe design looked like a tall narrow smoothed out Prius with tiny roller skate wheels and massively compromised packaging.  Thankfully saner heads prevailed and the edict came down 'If we're doing this, we're doing it properly'  The whole thing was essentially restarted and the end result is, in my opinion, great. 

93EXCivic
93EXCivic MegaDork
4/8/21 11:17 a.m.

It is hideous, big and doesn't actually look that practical.

 

The VW Bus and that Canoo truck have been the only two EVs that have really interested me.

preach (fs)
preach (fs) HalfDork
4/8/21 11:19 a.m.

Not really a fan and GM basically lying about torque is amusing:

At launch, the 2022 GMC Hummer EV will take marching orders from three electric motors that offer a GM-estimated 1,000 horsepower (746 kilowatts) and laughable 11,500 pound-feet (15,592 newton-meters). Pardon our skepticism, but we’re all but certain that number is far from credible – it likely represents torque where the tire meets the road, which is always higher than what’s made by the actual powertrain. According to reporting from Car and Driver, the electric motors probably produce closer to 800 lb-ft (1,085 Nm), a number that would be more impressive had GM stuck to it rather than giving into the temptation to trump up its numbers.

Keith Tanner
Keith Tanner MegaDork
4/8/21 11:20 a.m.

In reply to Adrian_Thompson (Forum Supporter) :

I was thinking more of the lag time between the reveal and actual availability with a few missteps in production. I'm not sure I'd quantify it as widely available yet. The local EV club has reported that one showed up at a dealership two towns away, but nothing local. There has been at least one VW at the dealership here. 

It's interesting that the program changed from "what can we do to meet legislative requirements" (which gave us hits like the 500e) and "what can we build that the customer might buy". That's a pretty massive shift in thinking and I think it's what all the established automakers are going through. 

SVreX (Forum Supporter)
SVreX (Forum Supporter) MegaDork
4/8/21 11:37 a.m.

Chrysler Pacifica?  Dear Lord, please no!

I own one. I've had 5 different mini vans, and this is my absolute least favorite. It's awful to drive. 
 

It weighs 4330 lbs, and has the same track width as my full sized pickup. It's as maneuverable as a toaster. 
 

It does have power. The 3.7L is a torque monster. I can't wait to get one in a lighter chassis. But of course, that engine will be gone in an EV version. 
 

My biggest complaint is how many buttons the darned thing has. Almost every function on the car has too many redundancies to make any sense. For example, the sliding doors have 6 different ways you can open them, depending on which button you feel like pushing.  The manual comfort controls are too low on the dash to safely operate when driving, and the touch screen system is massively cluttered. The car has lots of features, but it is the definition of distracted driving. I can't find anything quick enough when driving to safety navigate the car. Everyone who drives it feels the same way. We always ask a passenger to operate the dash controls. The car feels like Chrysler (as the red-headed stepchild of automakers) was simply trying too hard. 
 

The Hummer?  I guess it's fine. Pretty much falls into the same category as a Tesla S for me. "Oh, isn't that pretty, but I'll sure never drive one". 
 

Maybe we'll see the tech trickle down to useful vehicles... assuming we can figure out how to mine enough lithium to supply all the promises all the automakers are making. 

Keith Tanner
Keith Tanner MegaDork
4/8/21 11:46 a.m.
SVreX (Forum Supporter) said:

The Hummer?  I guess it's fine. Pretty much falls into the same category as a Tesla S for me. "Oh, isn't that pretty, but I'll sure never drive one". 
 

Maybe we'll see the tech trickle down to useful vehicles... 

Well, that Tesla S begat the best selling EV the world has ever seen :) So yes, I think you can assume that.

Wally (Forum Supporter)
Wally (Forum Supporter) MegaDork
4/8/21 11:52 a.m.
Adrian_Thompson (Forum Supporter) said:

I don't care for it, but I'm intrigued by it and look forward to seeing it in the flesh, especially the running gear.  On the down side once it's launched I fear it will be 1997 again and every trophy wife will want one, just as happened with H1's and it will make parking down town a nightmare as they line up outside Yoga and Pilates studios.  

I hope you're wrong, the H1 was a miserable vehicle to live with and this one looks to much like an updated FJ Cruiser.  I'm hoping my future trophy wife wants an electric Escalade. 

SVreX (Forum Supporter)
SVreX (Forum Supporter) MegaDork
4/8/21 11:52 a.m.

In reply to Keith Tanner :

I am!  Haha

(but that doesn't mean I have to like the Hummer!)

Keith Tanner
Keith Tanner MegaDork
4/8/21 11:56 a.m.
Wally (Forum Supporter) said:
Adrian_Thompson (Forum Supporter) said:

I don't care for it, but I'm intrigued by it and look forward to seeing it in the flesh, especially the running gear.  On the down side once it's launched I fear it will be 1997 again and every trophy wife will want one, just as happened with H1's and it will make parking down town a nightmare as they line up outside Yoga and Pilates studios.  

I hope you're wrong, the H1 was a miserable vehicle to live with and this one looks to much like an updated FJ Cruiser.  I'm hoping my future trophy wife wants an electric Escalade. 

You realize, Wally, that you have to bring the cash if you want a trophy wife. Otherwise you're the trophy.

So you can just get yourself that Elecralade now. Because you're your own trophy.

yupididit
yupididit PowerDork
4/8/21 12:03 p.m.
Keith Tanner said:
Wally (Forum Supporter) said:
Adrian_Thompson (Forum Supporter) said:

I don't care for it, but I'm intrigued by it and look forward to seeing it in the flesh, especially the running gear.  On the down side once it's launched I fear it will be 1997 again and every trophy wife will want one, just as happened with H1's and it will make parking down town a nightmare as they line up outside Yoga and Pilates studios.  

I hope you're wrong, the H1 was a miserable vehicle to live with and this one looks to much like an updated FJ Cruiser.  I'm hoping my future trophy wife wants an electric Escalade. 

You realize, Wally, that you have to bring the cash if you want a trophy wife. Otherwise you're the trophy.

So you can just get yourself that Elecralade now. Because you're your own trophy.

I love this

Wally (Forum Supporter)
Wally (Forum Supporter) MegaDork
4/8/21 12:13 p.m.

In reply to Keith Tanner :

I'm at best a participation trophy. 
 

noddaz
noddaz UltraDork
4/8/21 2:04 p.m.

No, I am not.

chandler
chandler UltimaDork
4/8/21 6:08 p.m.

I saw one driving in Detroit today, by the time I recognized it it was gone so no pics. Looked good in size and a bit futuristic, and I think it will age better that the last ones did.

Gearheadotaku (Forum Supporter)
Gearheadotaku (Forum Supporter) UltimaDork
4/8/21 8:42 p.m.

IMHO The current electrics market is luxury cars that cost more than my house and souless eco-boxes that make a 1982 Escort look good.

Simple and cheap is what we were promised with electrics, we're getting super complicated and super expensive. Why are these things crammed with electronics that use up more battery power instead of simple mechanical things that don't? Do you need motorized door handles? A touch screen the size of the TV in my living room? Oh, hope you have a masters in computer science to figure out how to work it too.

Put an electric powertrain in a new Toyota 86 with a 2 knob radio, speedometer and charge level gauge. Now you have my attention. 

yupididit
yupididit PowerDork
4/8/21 10:48 p.m.

In reply to Gearheadotaku (Forum Supporter) :

I like for my daily drivers to be well equipped. That spartan tin-can daily driver thing got old with me. It seems like the rest of the car buying market agrees lol

GIRTHQUAKE
GIRTHQUAKE Dork
4/8/21 11:30 p.m.
Gearheadotaku (Forum Supporter) said:

IMHO The current electrics market is luxury cars that cost more than my house and souless eco-boxes that make a 1982 Escort look good.

Simple and cheap is what we were promised with electrics, we're getting super complicated and super expensive. Why are these things crammed with electronics that use up more battery power instead of simple mechanical things that don't? Do you need motorized door handles? A touch screen the size of the TV in my living room? Oh, hope you have a masters in computer science to figure out how to work it too.

Put an electric powertrain in a new Toyota 86 with a 2 knob radio, speedometer and charge level gauge. Now you have my attention. 

Because that fails in the market. Current market zeitgeist is Internet Of Things, Connectivity, and having you're phone's bluetooth actually work with your car. Nobody wants basic, they want basic at some time.

Besides, screens are cheaper and simpler than multiple different gauges. 

tuna55
tuna55 MegaDork
4/9/21 7:58 a.m.
Gearheadotaku (Forum Supporter) said:

IMHO The current electrics market is luxury cars that cost more than my house and souless eco-boxes that make a 1982 Escort look good.

Simple and cheap is what we were promised with electrics, we're getting super complicated and super expensive. Why are these things crammed with electronics that use up more battery power instead of simple mechanical things that don't? Do you need motorized door handles? A touch screen the size of the TV in my living room? Oh, hope you have a masters in computer science to figure out how to work it too.

Put an electric powertrain in a new Toyota 86 with a 2 knob radio, speedometer and charge level gauge. Now you have my attention. 

Hello! I'd like to introduce you to the Bolt, the Ioniq, the i3, the Leaf and Leaf plus, the Model 3, the Mach-E, the XC40 BEV, the Mini Cooper EV, the Model Y, the Polestar 2 and the Kona EV. All are nicely equipped, all well, well, under the value of a home. That range runs from basic to sophisticated, from moderate to very quick.

Gearheadotaku (Forum Supporter)
Gearheadotaku (Forum Supporter) UltimaDork
4/9/21 8:32 a.m.

You just listed a bunch of small, souless eco-boxes and expensive luxury cars.

tuna55
tuna55 MegaDork
4/9/21 8:36 a.m.
Gearheadotaku (Forum Supporter) said:

You just listed a bunch of small, souless eco-boxes and expensive luxury cars.

Nothing there was over the price of a loaded minivan.

 

Nothing there could be described as souless. have you driven any of them? Sat in any of them?

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